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MDogg

Best NCAA back-up this season?

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Who is the best “true” back-up this year? By true backup I mean someone who isn’t starting for their team but is burning up a year of eligibility...so excludes guys who are injured or taking an Olympic RS or regular RS.

I’d throw out Vince Turk. 5th year senior stuck behind Lugo who is 13-1 and that only loss was in OT to Austin O’Connor. He beat 3 guys Flo has ranked in the top 11 at Midlands. Essentially missed all of 2017 with an injury so seems like he has a good shot at getting a 6th year waiver and being in Iowa’s lineup next year. 

Looking at just Iowa alone I guess Wilke and Brands also deserve mention, and but I think their ceilings are lower than Turk’s.

Any other potential AA caliber guys out there burning a year of eligibility on the bench this year?

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36 minutes ago, Bozak2018 said:

With Eierman and Murin manning 141/149 in some way, not sure if Turk will be in the line up next year either.

True but if that’s the case I’d be surprised if he wasn’t a grad transfer (assuming he gets a 6th year).

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Not an Iowa fan but Costello is pretty good at HWT if he is not a RS.  

I would say that Army has some studs as well:

157:  Markus Hartman / Luke Weiland.  Luke was a 4 year starter then lost it to Hartman.  Weiland won by MD over Logan Parks and Hartman pinned him.  Weiland also split with Q Monday.

197:  if there were a prize for first, second and third string:  Army 197 would win that one. Aside from Alex Hopkins and JT Brown, whom both placed at midlands, you have B Paulson who, this season, has only lost 1-2 point decisions to both teammates, jake Jacobsen, and Cornell’s Loew (2x).  Alarmingly high bonus rate at open tourneys, which are where RS and backups go, would lean to think He dominates, like a starter, against other backups.   

Hwt: both army HWTs have ranked wins and no bad losses.  One is more athletic and one is stingy on points.  Depending on the opponent, the army coach can cause headaches at duals if opposing teams need to send out a HWT first with the dual on the line (can’t really scout/prep).

 

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RE: Army at 157 - not so sure Weiland lost the spot to Hartman. Weiland is back on the mat after an in-match injury at George Mason. Hartman has no doubt shown what he can do, but can he maintain? We’ll see who goes on the mat against Humphreys on Friday and who represents Army in the postseason.

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2 hours ago, sdgrappler said:

RE: Army at 157 - not so sure Weiland lost the spot to Hartman. Weiland is back on the mat after an in-match injury at George Mason. Hartman has no doubt shown what he can do, but can he maintain? We’ll see who goes on the mat against Humphreys on Friday and who represents Army in the postseason.

Maybe weiland’s major of Logan parks at the BKI will qualify an AQ spot for the EIWA at that weight.  If it doesn’t, Hartman will no doubt qualify the weight for the EIWA with his ranked wins.  The big problem is if Hartman qualifies a slot but weiland doesn’t, the EIWA will lose an AQ slot at 157 if weiland shows up at EIWAs.  Same thing happened with chandler and Cole.  Chandler was starting, but a coach will never cost the conference a slot hence Cole went to EIWAs.  Whoever goes, I hope they Win EIWAs.  

About 197, I hope to see Hopkins at easterns.  Aside from Stewart and Hartman, Hopkins has the best shot at AA on the team.  

To win EIWAs, Army needs at least 3 finalists.  Part of getting there is seeding.  Hartman can get a 1 seed And have to wrestle artalona or Humphries in the semis.  He has a win over artalona.  Weiland will most likely get a 5 seed.  That means he must beat the 4 seed in the quarters (artalona or Humphries who he has never beater) then Monday in the semis (who looks even better than last year when he beat weiland).  Stewart will get a 2 seed where he will meet the third seeded Loew/Weiler.  If 197 still needs to be flushed out, but the next three dual meets feature the best 197s in the EIWA not named Darmstadt.  the pressure is on coach ward to choose the wrestler who can beat Jacobsen (Lehigh), Phipps (bucknell) and Koser (navy).  The winner of that round robin will get the 2 seed.  There’s more, JT losing to Urbas (penn) knocked him into 6th as urbas was ranked 6th.  That doesn’t help ward’s fight in the seeding room.  JT would have to be perfect to the end of the season.  Hopkins wins all three he gets the 2 seed.

Ward knows that Cornell’s ORS decision leaves a void to nab an EIWA title.  After this year, Cornell will get back to the top spot, easily, for the next three years.  He will put in the wrestler who will place the highest, regardless of class year.  It seems cold to sit a 2x national qualifier and senior, but it’s business, not personal.    

 

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Dusty Hone gets my vote, but at this point I have to wonder if he's not the de facto first teamer. Top 20, has beaten some other top 20 guys. Pretty fun to watch, too, but not as much fun as Gfeller. I could easily see him making R12 if he goes to NCAAs, plus it's not outside the realm of possibility he could scrape in at a low AA spot (7th/8th) with a little luck.

Edited by TobusRex

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16 hours ago, Cptafw164 said:

Not an Iowa fan but Costello is pretty good at HWT if he is not a RS.  

I would say that Army has some studs as well:

157:  Markus Hartman / Luke Weiland.  Luke was a 4 year starter then lost it to Hartman.  Weiland won by MD over Logan Parks and Hartman pinned him.  Weiland also split with Q Monday.

197:  if there were a prize for first, second and third string:  Army 197 would win that one. Aside from Alex Hopkins and JT Brown, whom both placed at midlands, you have B Paulson who, this season, has only lost 1-2 point decisions to both teammates, jake Jacobsen, and Cornell’s Loew (2x).  Alarmingly high bonus rate at open tourneys, which are where RS and backups go, would lean to think He dominates, like a starter, against other backups.   

Hwt: both army HWTs have ranked wins and no bad losses.  One is more athletic and one is stingy on points.  Depending on the opponent, the army coach can cause headaches at duals if opposing teams need to send out a HWT first with the dual on the line (can’t really scout/prep).

 

Army definitely has some studs (in the lineup and on the bench) but I think Iowa 149 has the deepest one-two-three punch. The 2nd and 3rd string guys have 2 combined loses (ex med forfeits) and those 2 loses were both 1 point loses to Austin O’Connor. 

The guy who would be Cornell’s backup 184 pounder if Max Dean wasn’t on ORS this season (Jonathan Loew) has beaten both Brown and Paulson this season. Still real solid wrestlers, but I’d give the edge to Turk and Glosser over Brown and Paulson. All 4 are clearly D1 starters though and it’s a shame Turk and Glossner are spending their senior seasons on the bench (though I suspect Turk will get a 6th year).

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1 hour ago, Perry said:

Turk 6th year will be irrelevant unless he transfers. He will still sit behind Murin and Eirmann unless Iowa decides to play games and say that Murin is hurt and will need a 6th year as well

Irrelevant for Iowa but not Turk. I think it’s highly likely he transfers. He probably would’ve transferred last offseason if Eierman hadn’t waited until the week the NCAA season started to announce his transfer.

The Brands will probably do whatever they can to keep him though. Iowa should be right in the thick of the team race next season and Turk would be an elite backup who could step in and score team points at either 149 or 141 if there was an injury.

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13 hours ago, TobusRex said:

Dusty Hone gets my vote, but at this point I have to wonder if he's not the de facto first teamer. Top 20, has beaten some other top 20 guys. Pretty fun to watch, too, but not as much fun as Gfeller. I could easily see him making R12 if he goes to NCAAs, plus it's not outside the realm of possibility he could scrape in at a low AA spot (7th/8th) with a little luck.

Pretty sure G isn’t wrestling anymore this year, and word is Kaid Brock is coming back soon and he ll be going 141, so hone and gfeller may end up as some of the top back ups in the country.

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1 hour ago, MDogg said:

Irrelevant for Iowa but not Turk. I think it’s highly likely he transfers. He probably would’ve transferred last offseason if Eierman hadn’t waited until the week the NCAA season started to announce his transfer.

The Brands will probably do whatever they can to keep him though. Iowa should be right in the thick of the team race next season and Turk would be an elite backup who could step in and score team points at either 149 or 141 if there was an injury.

Given how iffy Murin was at the beginning of the year in terms of his shoulder and his relatively "bad" ranking (for Iowa I mean), I think if Turk could have made 141 this year he would have. 

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The numbers tend to agree with what everyone here has already mentioned... based on wrestlestat Elo:

Kaden Gfeller 1498.9
Vince Turk 1476.8
Jaren Glosser 1458.8
Cash Wilcke 1452.0
Kyle Conel 1439.8
Quinn Kinner 1438.4
Connor Flynn 1426.8
Nelson Brands 1425.6
Ke-Shawn Hayes 1420.5
Luke Weiland 1419.2
Andrew Shomers 1418.3
Bennett Paulson 1409.6
Tyler Barnes 1397.3
Jack Brown 1395.6
Bobby Heald 1385.1
Jaret Lane 1385.0

Some of these guys have been injured to differing degrees, so make your own judgments there.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Pretty sure G isn’t wrestling anymore this year, and word is Kaid Brock is coming back soon and he ll be going 141, so hone and gfeller may end up as some of the top back ups in the country.

Wouldn't expect to see either Brock or G back this year.

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1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Pretty sure G isn’t wrestling anymore this year, and word is Kaid Brock is coming back soon and he ll be going 141, so hone and gfeller may end up as some of the top back ups in the country.

I don't think Kaid can beat Hone, actually. I think it's probably pretty tight between those guys, and Kaid is bound to be super rusty. Best he just takes the rest of his injury RS and comes back next year.

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5 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

I don't think Kaid can beat Hone, actually. I think it's probably pretty tight between those guys, and Kaid is bound to be super rusty. Best he just takes the rest of his injury RS and comes back next year.

If Kaid came back it would have been 133, pretty sure won't happen this year.

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7 hours ago, MDogg said:

Army definitely has some studs (in the lineup and on the bench) but I think Iowa 149 has the deepest one-two-three punch. The 2nd and 3rd string guys have 2 combined loses (ex med forfeits) and those 2 loses were both 1 point loses to Austin O’Connor. 

The guy who would be Cornell’s backup 184 pounder if Max Dean wasn’t on ORS this season (Jonathan Loew) has beaten both Brown and Paulson this season. Still real solid wrestlers, but I’d give the edge to Turk and Glosser over Brown and Paulson. All 4 are clearly D1 starters though and it’s a shame Turk and Glossner are spending their senior seasons on the bench (though I suspect Turk will get a 6th year).

Can’t disagree on Iowa 149...or Iowa 184 for that matter

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3 hours ago, ionel said:

If Kaid came back it would have been 133, pretty sure won't happen this year.

He got much better results at 133 than 141, for sure. I expect him to come back much improved next year. Last hurrah and all that.

 

What's the problem with Gfeller? Academic issues? Seems that one should be pretty easy to beat. Stick him with a tutor, put him in easier classes. Maybe it's not too late, it's a Fresh semester and there's a couple months until nationals.

Edited by TobusRex

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