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RBY should have been DQ'd

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The word is out that DeSanto is practicing some of his good old fashioned illegal takedowns himself for this rematch with RBY.   Apparently, he is conspiring as well with GIlman, who is skilled at illegal escapes.

 

 

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First post but long time follower here. I figured it was a good time to start since I can maybe offer some insight due to being in grad school for this sort of thing. Some of you have some pretty entertaining takes on this, but I don’t think some of you realize that rotating the knee outward has different effects on the joint depending on the degree of flexion the knee is in. Since Desanto’s knee was at near full flexion, the Femur moves forward in relation to the Tibia, causing the MCL and LCL to become lax. This makes the knee significantly less stable than when the knee is extended. This gives the knee a chance to move further side to side than it is supposed to. Simply put, given how hard his leg was pulled and rotated laterally from this position, there is a lot of force placed on the medial side of his knee. The fact that he grabs the medial part of his knee after the first stoppage should show that he’s not faking this. I would not be surprised to see a ligament tear in this situation. I have had several knee ligament injuries myself and can attest that his behavior after the fact was pretty consistent. I also believe he is one of the least likely candidates in NCAA wrestling to end a match unless something significant has occurred. 

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5 hours ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Yeah the rules clearly say any move outside the normal RoM is illegal. I’m just saying they hardly ever DQ people unless it’s flagrant. I do know that grabbing the sole of the foot is not a twisting knee lock, because well it’s not a lock at all.
That said, I agree this is a ideal position to blow the MCL and a DQ wouldn’t be completely insane. I know I have read a more specific rule about grabbing the foot pad, but maybe it was freestyle ?

Also,add in the photos pg 84 29-31. 

In the last 2-3 years (I believe in the 2017-2019 book) they changed the definition of not continuing after recovery time following an illegal hold from a default to a dq. So, since Desanto tried to continue after the initial situation, it wouldn't be a dq (I didn't see that bout so was it called illegal at all?) unless he said he couldn't continue during recovery time or before continuing immediately following. This wouldn't be considered flagrant unless called as such initially so it's a dq without further repercussions.

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Here's a video of Tom Brands recap win over Penn State.

5:40 Tom Brands – “I think if we could have got him (DeSanto) calmed down a bit, I think he could have got back in that match.”

Lets face it, DeSanto was not calm (and he was not physically hurt as evidenced by his jumping up and down during the 285lb match) and it cost him the match and his TEAM 6 points because he allowed his emotions to get the best of him.

Not good Austin but I'm still pulling for you to win the whole thing in March. I know you can do it!

 

Edited by Marcus Cisero

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4 hours ago, dmm53 said:

The word is out that DeSanto is practicing some of his good old fashioned illegal takedowns himself for this rematch with RBY.   Apparently, he is conspiring as well with GIlman, who is skilled at illegal escapes.

 

 

LOL...Gilman is such a jackass! I remember that :D

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 You can clearly see that RBY turns the toe outward and torques the knee. I have seen this called both potentially dangerous and illegal. I’m honestly not sure what the interpretation is, but I would say it is against the natural motion of the joint and should be illegal. Either way it’s definitely dirty and if DeSanto did it everyone would be all over him. But it’s hard to feel sorry for the guy given his antics in the past. I did not see anything wrong with the second cradle. That appeared to be slapped on beautifully, and I think DeSanto just couldn’t get it together mentally 

552247E9-F546-4193-AF76-9911B8C2F73A.jpeg

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5 hours ago, Marcus Cisero said:

Here's a video of Tom Brands recap win over Penn State.

5:40 Tom Brands – “I think if we could have got him (DeSanto) calmed down a bit, I think he could have got back in that match.”

Lets face it, DeSanto was not calm (and he was not physically hurt as evidenced by his jumping up and down during the 285lb match) and it cost him the match and his TEAM 6 points because he allowed his emotions to get the best of him.

Not good Austin but I'm still pulling for you to win the whole thing in March. I know you can do it!

 

Tom sure does have a man crush on Cass.  Can’t say I blame him.

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20 minutes ago, Perry said:

This is significantly dirtier than anything that happened last night

Exactly. It’s quite possible that some of the same individuals who think what RBY did was dirty/Illegal had no problem with this in ‘10. 

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From the rule book. Although what happened was not exactly illustrated, the pressure is against the normal movement of the knee joint.  The rule book also states that an illegal hold should be stopped by the referee to prevent injury but in cases where the illegal hold/movement cannot be prevented it should be penalized.  Objectively, I would say that move is going against the normal movement of the joint no matter who does it.

image.png.e4e0017a0d8b3d7bf1ec90ad6b280c36.png

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11 minutes ago, John Morgan said:

From the rule book. Although what happened was not exactly illustrated, the pressure is against the normal movement of the knee joint.  The rule book also states that an illegal hold should be stopped by the referee to prevent injury but in cases where the illegal hold/movement cannot be prevented it should be penalized.  Objectively, I would say that move is going against the normal movement of the joint no matter who does it.

image.png.e4e0017a0d8b3d7bf1ec90ad6b280c36.png

Yeah, there was no twisting involved last night

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I taped this meet and just went back and looked at the situation again, which I didn't think was illegal at the time.......I still don't see anything illegal ....RBY had his right/inside hand behind DeSanto's knee/calf and left hand on the ball of the foot ...he brought both around at the same time to straighten the leg out for the cradle....looks like great technique to me.  Like someone else mentioned ....the Brands would have gone coo coo if they thought it was illegal....of course, they couldn't afford anymore team points deducted either.

49472915188_404ecdb52d_b.jpgrbydesanto by fadzaev6, on Flickr

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1 minute ago, fadzaev2 said:

I taped this meet and just went back and looked at the situation again, which I didn't think was illegal at the time.......I still don't see anything illegal ....RBY had his right/inside hand behind DeSanto's knee/calf and left hand on the ball of the foot ...he brought both around at the same time to straighten the leg out for the cradle....looks like great technique to me.  Like someone else mentioned ....the Brands would have gone coo coo if they thought it was illegal....of course, they couldn't afford anymore team points deducted either.

49472915188_404ecdb52d_b.jpgrbydesanto by fadzaev6, on Flickr

Agree

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Honestly, blows my mind how unaware some people are. RBY clearly took the ankle out of position. No one sits on their ankles that way or it would be severely uncomfortable. It took it out of position, applied pressure, and pulled it out and toward him. It was clearly intentional. It wasn’t a wrestling move. No one walks with their foot facing outwards. Lost a lot of respect for both Cael and RBY. 
 

if you can’t see that and that Pennstate isn’t and was never as white as their colors, I’m sorry, you’re probably not experienced in wrestling, ju jitsu, and mma. 

Edited by Daybreak

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Just watched the video after reading the majority of the comments here....the only thing I see incorrectly called was that RBY didn’t get credit for a takedown. He executed nothing illeagal. It was a positional thing that led to the pop, much much more so than RBY executing something illegal. He barely brought the foot off the ground. Pulled more forward/to him than out perpendicular against the joint, as a direct set up to his cradle. The injury happened in the process of the score. And had it not popped, that match would have been over by fall within the next ten seconds. RBY should have gotten two. 

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51 minutes ago, fadzaev2 said:

the Brands would have gone coo coo if they thought it was illegal....of course, they couldn't afford anymore team points deducted either.

 

Not that it really has much bearing on determining if it was illegal, but they did.  That’s why they lost the team point in the first place. 

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Every match last night involved pressure on knees that goes against what is normal. Wrestlers place themselves at risk, but their opponents also place them at risk. 

RBY didn't do anything we don't see with frequency in wrestling. Maybe Desanto lacks flexibility. 

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