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Marcus Cisero

DeSanto "No Mas" Against RBY

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42 minutes ago, whaletail said:

The way he wrestled between cradles is far from dispositive, but I doubt very much he tore any ligaments.  You can't wrestle through stability issues without at least some sort of brace.

Fake news.

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Just finished listening to the Rudis podcast with Matt Dernlan and Jason Bryant. Jason is a great addition to that show and I really enjoyed the back and forth between them. Nice rhythm going on there. 

Dernlan joined the "No Mas" camp and even added an implied take that several friends he had spoken with agreed with that take. Jason Bryant did not go there at all, so that needs pointing out. But the fact a guy like Dernlan is willing to publicly go on record with that really stood out to me.

Their enthusiasm for both the Marinelli-Cenzo and Hall-Kemdog matches was cool to see. Jason said he was in a sports bar and people gathered round to see what all the excitement was about. Love it. 

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49 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Just finished listening to the Rudis podcast with Matt Dernlan and Jason Bryant. Jason is a great addition to that show and I really enjoyed the back and forth between them. Nice rhythm going on there. 

Dernlan joined the "No Mas" camp and even added an implied take that several friends he had spoken with agreed with that take. Jason Bryant did not go there at all, so that needs pointing out. But the fact a guy like Dernlan is willing to publicly go on record with that really stood out to me.

Their enthusiasm for both the Marinelli-Cenzo and Hall-Kemdog matches was cool to see. Jason said he was in a sports bar and people gathered round to see what all the excitement was about. Love it. 

The end of your response reminded me to mention how great the overall match was for the sport wrestling.  Record setting day for BTN views.  The individuals at the Sports Bar who stopped for a moment to watch the Marinelli-Joseph match, possibly came away as new wrestling fans, but at the very least have a genuine respect for the warriors/wrestlers that compete in this sport.

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1 hour ago, Mphillips said:

Fake news.

I should have been clearer.

You can't just will yourself through stability issues as you can with pain.  If you don't have the stability issues to begin with, or you can somehow avoid those positions, that's a different situation.

I didn't notice any stability issues while DeSanto was wrestling, and thus will be surprised if his ACL is torn (which isn't the same thing as saying it can't possibly be torn).

That said, I absolutely believe he injured his knee during the first cradle, and I'm surprised his coaches allowed him to continue.  I'm not accusing them of negligence or anything, I'm just surprised they weren't more cautious.

I also think some combination of the initial injury, his own inexperience dealing with injury, and the shock of being taken to his back so forcefully, probably unhinged him somewhat.  He subsequently looked desperate and shaken on the mat, and although he scrambled through some positions quite well, he appeared very distressed during breaks in the action.

I don't think he consciously quit, but became so anxious in the moment that continuing was simply not an option.

That's only my opinion, but regardless, unless the injury turns out to be season ending, I believe he'll learn from the experience, and continue improving.

Nor do I think RBY found the blueprint to defending DS' attacks, at least long term, as the Iowa coaches will help him make the necessary adjustments, and probably by Big 10s.

I can't wait to see their next match, and have no idea how it will unfold, or even whom I favor.

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8 minutes ago, whaletail said:

I should have been clearer.

You can't just will yourself through stability issues as you can with pain.  If you don't have the stability issues to begin with, or you can somehow avoid those positions, that's a different situation.

I didn't notice any stability issues while DeSanto was wrestling, and thus will be surprised if his ACL is torn (which isn't the same thing as saying it can't possibly be torn).

That said, I absolutely believe he injured his knee during the first cradle, and I'm surprised his coaches allowed him to continue.  I'm not accusing them of negligence or anything, I'm just surprised they weren't more cautious.

I also think some combination of the initial injury, his own inexperience dealing with injury, and the shock of being taken to his back so forcefully, probably unhinged him somewhat.  He subsequently looked desperate and shaken on the mat, and although he scrambled through some positions quite well, he appeared very distressed during breaks in the action.

I don't think he consciously quit, but became so anxious in the moment that continuing was simply not an option.

That's only my opinion, but regardless, unless the injury turns out to be season ending, I believe he'll learn from the experience, and continue improving.

Nor do I think RBY found the blueprint to defending DS' attacks, at least long term, as the Iowa coaches will help him make the necessary adjustments, and probably by Big 10s.

I can't wait to see their next match, and have no idea how it will unfold, or even whom I favor.

Stop being so reasonable!  

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3 hours ago, whaletail said:

One of my old teammates wrestled at UVA and is an NCAA official, and ACC network commentator (Gerard Harrison).  After watching the video multiple times, he doesn't believe either of the cradles was even borderline, let alone illegal.

He's certainly not the final arbiter, or even necessarily correct, but those claiming it was obviously illegal are likely misguided.

Are you suggesting we give more credence to a former D1 wrestler, NCAA Official and ACC commentator than to anonymous posters who have clairvoyantly determined that the evil "Bael" instructed RBY to intentionally injure DeSanto?  You must think we're pretty naive, Mr. Whaletail!

Edited by HurricaneWrestling2

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2 hours ago, whaletail said:

Yianni was braced in the matches following the injury

He at least braced he knee, and was obviously wrestling cautiously.

Wait a minute:  you said "You can't wrestle through stability issues without at least some sort of brace."  Yet, Yianni finished the match against a 2x NCAA champion *without* any brace.  Pretty sure he wrestled the rest of that match.

In fact, he injured his leg in exactly the same position of his leg as was Desanto's.  He injured it only a minute into the match, and if you think he was "obviously wrestling cautiously" the rest of the match with Heil, and then with Eierman, and then with Meredith, you weren't actually watching those matches.  He actually ran off the mat and jumped into Mike Grey's arms after beating Heil.  So, yeah.

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I'm amazed something that took place 5 days ago continues on and on and on - therefore, as author of the thread, I get to continue on with my observations. Please keep in mind, at least 50% of wrestling fans agree with me based on numerous forum, social media, etc opinions and observations.

After at least a dozen reviews of this match.....

:12 DeSanto gets put in a dangerous cradle cause injury time to escape. 2:18 referee starts wrestlers Bravo young takes away Desanto's only threat. 2:30 DeSanto realizes he's one-dimensional (takedown by Roman) 2:55 DeSanto tries to sell the injury but continues to wrestle only limps back to the center. 5:14 DeSanto escapes and reshoots in on same single leg. 5:24 Roman Bravo young slaps another cradle on faster than you can say Hawkeye ( DeSanto tells for ref to stop) 5:37 DeSanto looks at coaching staff. "I can't go". Coach Brands- "What? Are you quitting"? 5:41 Coach Brands (holding the staff back) "Stay back let him quit". DeSanto immediately stands and fake staggers to the center.

Final Conclusion: The only thing DeSanto injured was his pride. RBY showed up to win and was putting DeSanto on his back when Austin faked an injury, twice in the same period.

Prediction: Austin does not become a national champion in 2020. I hope I'm wrong because I like the guy but his emotional roller coaster from year to year and now this travesty leads me to this conclusion.

Edited by Marcus Cisero

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I believe that would be most people's prediction, especially now that he is potentially hurt.  Gross and Rivera would have been favorites over DeSanto even pre injury.  

I just hope he is healthy for nationals, as it's turned into one of the more fun weight classes this year.  Considering the Olympic red shirts, it's been a pleasant surprise.

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1 hour ago, PASLP2 said:

The end of your response reminded me to mention how great the overall match was for the sport wrestling.  Record setting day for BTN views.  The individuals at the Sports Bar who stopped for a moment to watch the Marinelli-Joseph match, possibly came away as new wrestling fans, but at the very least have a genuine respect for the warriors/wrestlers that compete in this sport.

I was in a sports bar in Florida and witnessed a similar reaction. 

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Guess Nolf wimped out against John Van Brill last year. 
 

John Van Brill was about to turn things around, it’s not his fault Nolf did that to himself. Shoulda kept wrestling. 

Edited by Daybreak

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At this point, whether he is hurt or not, many on here are so cynical about Desanto and Iowa that it's a no win. If he doesn't wrestle in the next duals(which it looks like he won't) its only because Iowa is selling the fact he was hurt even though he wasn't. If he does wrestle, he was obviously not hurt, even though that doesn't actually mean anything. If he wins a title, people will say he faked it against RBY. If he doesn't, people will say he got what was coming to him. 

The only way people will be satisfied is if Desanto has a torn ligament and has to miss the rest of the season. Then MAYBE he will get the benefit of the doubt, but even then I doubt anyone will come back and apologize for all the piling on that happened on this board. 

 

Edited by russelscout

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From my observations, John Van Brill INTENTIONALLY injured Nolf and he and the lousy ref should have been DQ'd for the remainder of the season. Mr Nolf who was ACTUALLY INJURED took that adversity and turned it into success by winning his 3rd national championship. 

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Actually Nolf did that to himself. And Anthony Robbles won a national title on one leg. What’s the problem? Why couldn’t he continue the match? It was only a pop sound. 

Edited by Daybreak

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5 minutes ago, Marcus Cisero said:

From my observations, John Van Brill INTENTIONALLY injured Nolf and he and the lousy ref should have been DQ'd for the remainder of the season. Mr Nolf who was ACTUALLY INJURED took that adversity and turned it into success by winning his 3rd national championship. 

I can't tell if you are trolling or not.

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28 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

Rivera would have been favorites over DeSanto even pre injury.  

Disagree totally, I think the majority of the country would've had a Gross/Desanto finals prior to the RBY match.

Even now, I think Desanto is likely still favored over Rivera.   

 

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Disagree totally, I think the majority of the country would've had a Gross/Desanto finals prior to the RBY match.

Even now, I think Desanto is likely still favored over Rivera.   

 

Pre season is what I meant.  Rivera, after beating Spencer Lee twice, would have been most people’s favorite to meet Gross in the finals.

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The one thing that truly amazes me is how many extremely talented doctors we have on this message board. So talented that they can tell with the assist of replay how injured/not injured they are so certain about. 

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3 hours ago, klehner said:

Wait a minute:  you said "You can't wrestle through stability issues without at least some sort of brace."  Yet, Yianni finished the match against a 2x NCAA champion *without* any brace.  Pretty sure he wrestled the rest of that match.

In fact, he injured his leg in exactly the same position of his leg as was Desanto's.  He injured it only a minute into the match, and if you think he was "obviously wrestling cautiously" the rest of the match with Heil, and then with Eierman, and then with Meredith, you weren't actually watching those matches.  He actually ran off the mat and jumped into Mike Grey's arms after beating Heil.  So, yeah.

As I already acknowledged, I should have been clearer.

Unlike pain alone, you can't simply will yourself through stability issues.  Something has to brace the knee laterally; if not the ligament, a brace.

And I was very surprised Yianni was able to wrestle out the the tourney, brace or not.  Maybe he didn't suffer a complete tear, maybe the meniscus was minimally damaged, or maybe he was just the exception that proves the rule, but regardless, the specifics of AD's injury aren't really relevant since I never claimed he wasn't injured, and don't believe he consciously quit.

Considering some of the utter lunacy thrown around this thread, I have no idea why my post drew your ire.

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1 minute ago, whaletail said:

As I already acknowledged, I should have been clearer.

Considering some of the utter lunacy thrown around this thread, I have no idea why my post drew your ire.

Folks don't read, when they can jump.

There's rarely a reason besides... folks wanting to jump. 

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