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VakAttack

Now imagine THAT determining the team champion

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It's what we should do. What an amazing product, great dual, twists and turns throughout. Great individual performances from Spencer, RBY, Nick Lee, Cenzo, Marinelli, Kemerer, and Cassioppi. Cenzo-Marinelli match of the night, what a battle. OW to Kemerer. Hoo boy, I am JACKED up.

 

My cousin, NOT an Iowa fan at all, was raving about the product.

 

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It's what we should do. What an amazing product, great dual, twists and turns throughout. Great individual performances from Spencer, RBY, Nick Lee, Cenzo, Marinelli, Kemerer, and Cassioppi. Cenzo-Marinelli match of the night, what a battle. OW to Kemerer. Hoo boy, I am JACKED up.
 
My cousin, NOT an Iowa fan at all, was raving about the product.
 
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
 

I'm a convert to using duals as the championship format going forward. It's the only logical way to grow the sport into the mainstream. The school rivalries help sell our product via the dual format.

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17 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

I'm a convert to using duals as the championship format going forward. It's the only logical way to grow the sport into the mainstream. The school rivalries help sell our product via the dual format.

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Its hard for me to choose because both the tourney and dual are awesome. Imagine the tourney ending with 165 then 174 this year to decide the title.

Edited by russelscout

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5 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

I'm a convert to using duals as the championship format going forward. It's the only logical way to grow the sport into the mainstream. The school rivalries help sell our product via the dual format.

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I agree. The individual tournament is fantastic. But I really like these dual matches for deciding which team is the best. The performances, the crowd, the energy is just unmatched and is something even non-hardcore can get behind and understand. This Iowa/PSU matchup was 'off the charts' crazy good. And I'm usually neutral toward either team.

I enjoyed the Minn win over Purdue just before this match... it was fun, but didn't hold a candle to the Iowa/PSU matchup!

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Well said, I’m officially on board with a dual championship format. I think there is room for a dual championship to coexist with the (individual) national tournament. I won’t pretend to have enough foresight to describe how the system should work; but several state high school athletic associations successfully use both a dual format to crown team state champions and a tournament format to crown individual state champions-The NCAA ought to be able to figure it out too  

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32 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

 

It's what we should do. What an amazing product, great dual, twists and turns throughout. Great individual performances from Spencer, RBY, Nick Lee, Cenzo, Marinelli, Kemerer, and Cassioppi. Cenzo-Marinelli match of the night, what a battle. OW to Kemerer. Hoo boy, I am JACKED up.

 

My cousin, NOT an Iowa fan at all, was raving about the product.

 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Was this match good? The posts on this forum would lead me to believe it was horrible with lots of cheating in Iowas favor.

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18 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Sadly, Carl will not allow it.

I look at it this way:

Carl was solidly against it when his team was the almost guaranteed favorite to win the championship via the individual tournament and this type of change could basically take that away.

As his team transitions from guaranteed individual tournament favorite to, perhaps, a team that finishes higher nationally in a dual format ... I'd bet his position starts to change.

 

 

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I look at it this way:
Carl was solidly against it when his team was the almost guaranteed favorite to win the championship via the individual tournament and this type of change could basically take that away.
As his team transitions from guaranteed individual tournament favorite to, perhaps, a team that finishes higher nationally in a dual format ... I'd bet his position starts to change.
 
 
It's just a better format to grow the sport than the individual tournament.




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8 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

It's just a better format to grow the sport than the individual tournament.
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As I previously posted, I also believe that it is a better format.

In my last post, I was addressing the post pertaining to 'requiring' Carl's approval - and, specifically, about how his attitude toward the potential change may soften as his team evolves into one that performs better in the dual format than in previous years.

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58 minutes ago, Underhook said:

Well said, I’m officially on board with a dual championship format. I think there is room for a dual championship to coexist with the (individual) national tournament. I won’t pretend to have enough foresight to describe how the system should work; but several state high school athletic associations successfully use both a dual format to crown team state champions and a tournament format to crown individual state champions-The NCAA ought to be able to figure it out too  

You mean the turkeys who can't even figure out how to have an NCAA Champion in top tier of D1 football? Only a poll champion - with the cheezy 4 team playoff. Every other division has a real playoff and crowns a real Champion.

 

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1 hour ago, Perry said:

It was a great dual, both teams came to battle. Outside of the 149/157 matches it was very entertaining

Those weren’t bad either. A team format makes even slower matches interesting due to the team score implications. PSU deserves credit for keeping those losses to 3 points each.

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I love duals. I also agree theyre more fun and entertaining to watch and attract new fans to the sport. With that said I dont think that they should determine the NCAA team championship.

In pretty much all other sports the team relies on their best players to carry the load of scoring points. In basketball a star player can score the majority of their team's points. Same with soccer, football, baseball etc. In a wrestling dual the best an individual wrestler can do is score 1/10 of the points available for his team. In the tournament format the star is capable of scoring a larger portion of the team's point total.

I would absolutely love a separate dual team championship but not at the expense of the Team championship at NCAAs...

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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56 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

I love duals. I also agree theyre more fun and entertaining to watch and attract new fans to the sport. With that said I dont think that they should determine the NCAA team championship.

In pretty much all other sports the team relies on their best players to carry the load of scoring points. In basketball a star player can score the majority of their team's points. Same with soccer, football, baseball etc. In a wrestling dual the best an individual wrestler can do is score 1/10 of the points available for his team. In the tournament format the star is capable of scoring a larger portion of the team's point total.

I would absolutely love a separate dual team championship but not at the expense of the Team championship at NCAAs...

Not trying to get that same-old argument going again, but at the same time there's the other side of the argument that should be mentioned...

In most other sports, the team relies on the full team's abilities. A few football stars on a team with a bunch of scrubs couldn't dream of getting anywhere in a national tournament. In wrestling, it happens every single year. 

Should a single team member's contribution be worth more than 1/10th of the eventual team score? Good question. Maybe, maybe not. 

I agree with BigTenFanboy, a separate dual championship, or some other creative idea to solve the team problem would be great.

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The tournament is far more fun than national duals, but I would like to see a legit National Duals tournament with all the conference dual champs going against each other, with however many wildcard teams we need to fill out the bracket (how many D1 wrestling conferences in America?).

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The only people who can possibly still be convinced that the NCAA tournament is a better way to determine the team champion are obviously hardcore PSU fans.  I'm not biased against either Iowa or PSU, I think they are both equally worthless, but that dual was epic. Casual/non-fans everywhere (like my girlfriend) can appreciate a contest like that and get excited about the matches/results, and be done in 2 hours.  There is no comparison to NCAA's and their indecipherable scoring that often results in virtually no drama during the finals on Sat night.  

RBY was responsible for over 1/3 or PSU's points, so the argument that stars should be able to earn a disproportionate amount of points (like at NCAA's) is moot. It happens in duals too.

Impressive and gutty performances by outmatched wrestlers (149/157) are completely discounted at NCAA's, but are another source of excitement in duals for those teams.

I was actually really invested in the HWT match, which is almost unheard of at NCAA's.  They had to switch the order of the finals to counteract that effect, which is an admission in itself.

Look at the reactions of the wrestlers themselves.  To those who think wrestling is primarily an individual sport, why do wrestlers at this level get that excited during duals? You see teammates sitting in the stands eating, resting, etc. for 40-60% of their teammates matches at NCAA's.  There are 3-4 dozen different teams where recruits can reasonable expect to win a national title for themselves, yet they often cite team chemistry, "fit", family atmosphere, etc. as the difference makers in their decisions.  Teams MATTER to these guys, and to fans, and pretty much exclusively matter to casual/non-fans.

I refuse to accept that the horse is dead.  Never quit.

Edited by tigerfan

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