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Joseph-Marinelli

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That was an amazing match. After that throw, I thought that Cenzo was going to win a comfortable match, just like we've seen Marinelli do in the past. Then Marinelli comes out and hits that reversal. That throw was beautiful, that reversal was slick. Fun match.

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4 hours ago, El lucador said:

I hate to be negative on 2 college studs but this to me was a glaring example of how bad our upper body skills are in America. How long do you think either of these guys would last in that position against Bay? That is a pulling position not pushing. You gain advantage by getting shoulder position and creating momentum in  your  opponent from their pressure. 

 

4 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

It's not negative. It's realistic. We're obviously not a nation of greco enthusiasts. However, it was incredibly entertaining to watch.

I'm an extreme non-Greco enthusiast/quite Greco ignorant, so maybe not the best person to comment back on this, but I thought the Greco comparison/criticism might be apples and oranges because both of these guys heavily rely on their lower bodies when they work those ties.  I thought most of what the action was about after they locked up was each guy probing for an inside or outside angle with his feet in order to execute the move.  Footwork, hip position, and attempts to set up a trip or sweep were their focus in those positions (Joseph's famous title winning move is an inside trip, which is based on a below-the-waist touch); I thought it looked like good folkstyle wrestling.  

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4 hours ago, El lucador said:

I hate to be negative on 2 college studs but this to me was a glaring example of how bad our upper body skills are in America. How long do you think either of these guys would last in that position against Bay? That is a pulling position not pushing. You gain advantage by getting shoulder position and creating momentum in  your  opponent from their pressure. 

Well, Cenzo has some pretty good upper body guys in the PSU room , that's for sure.

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I'll take Joseph in the rematch (es).  Marinelli cannot get to Cenzo's legs because of his incredible hips.  As a result, he is trying to force upper body stuff.  Unfortunately for him, Cenzo is one of the best ever in those positions.  Penn State also knows how to get their wrestlers to peak at the right time.  Marinelli has a history of peaking prior to the NCAAs.  

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36 minutes ago, tightwaist said:

I'll take Joseph in the rematch (es).  Marinelli cannot get to Cenzo's legs because of his incredible hips.  As a result, he is trying to force upper body stuff.  Unfortunately for him, Cenzo is one of the best ever in those positions.  Penn State also knows how to get their wrestlers to peak at the right time.  Marinelli has a history of peaking prior to the NCAAs.  

They've gone upperbody three times and Marinelli has won twice.  I believe Cenzo has gotten to Marinelli's legs once, in their first match up, and hasn't touched them since.   So....

Edited by VakAttack

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It's not really a greco thing, imho, Marinelli would go flying in freestyle as well against anyone worth their salt.  Pushing in with underhooks, especially double under hooks, is a recipe for disaster, and outside trips are Very high risk as well.  He must be even stronger than he looks to pull that off, but any decent freestyler would put him on his head 99 times in 100.

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On 2/2/2020 at 5:26 PM, VakAttack said:

They've gone upperbody three times and Marinelli has won twice.  I believe Cenzo has gotten to Marinelli's legs once, in their first match up, and hasn't touched them since.   So....

I think Cael finally figured a way for Cenzo to beat Marinelli. Let him work for that bodylock then, wham, lateral drop. I like both Joseph and the Bull, love when guys aren't afraid to go upper body, but I'll be surprised if Marinelli gets another "W" over Cenzo. 

Edited by TobusRex

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58 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

When the match was over, I actually was more impressed with Marinelli.  He stormed back when he was done. It was like he was possessed. 

They didn’t show Mrs. Bull after the beginning of the match.  BTN usually pans to her about ten times during his matches.

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1 hour ago, TobusRex said:

I think Cael finally figured a way for Cenzo to beat Marinelli. Let him work for that bodylock then, wham, lateral drop. I like both Joseph and the Bull, love when guys aren't afraid to go upper body, but I'll be surprised if Marinelli gets another "W" over Cenzo. 

Such weird analysis.  "Cenzo has beaten Marinelli once by reversing a position he's lost twice, obviously Marinelli is just going to keep walking into it."  What's Cenzo's plan if Marinelli doesn't go for a body lock?  Obviously Cenzo could beat him the next time they wrestle, but what a weirdly dismissive thing to say about a guy hwo has won two of their three matches.

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10 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Such weird analysis.  "Cenzo has beaten Marinelli once by reversing a position he's lost twice, obviously Marinelli is just going to keep walking into it."  What's Cenzo's plan if Marinelli doesn't go for a body lock?  Obviously Cenzo could beat him the next time they wrestle, but what a weirdly dismissive thing to say about a guy hwo has won two of their three matches.

Marinelli has used, or tried to use, that body lock in every match versus Cenzo. In light of the fact that Cenzo is a 2 time champ, 3 time finalist and that he's turned Marinelli's go to move against him I think the question that should be asked is "what will Marinelli do on offense that will work vs Cenzo".

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Two great wrestlers and definitely a gritty match.  Still, I think Marinelli was overconfident and showed a lack of awareness in forcing an outside trip from that over-under position.  That's been a successful lateral for me whenever anybody tried to trip me from the outside in that position - and an easy one at that.  

As a nation, we do not have very good upper-body skills.

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2 hours ago, TobusRex said:

Marinelli has used, or tried to use, that body lock in every match versus Cenzo. In light of the fact that Cenzo is a 2 time champ, 3 time finalist and that he's turned Marinelli's go to move against him I think the question that should be asked is "what will Marinelli do on offense that will work vs Cenzo".

Well, we were robbed of a great move and possibly a pin by Marinelli when Cenzo whimpered his way out of backpoints from Marinelli's 3/4 nelson.  This has been lost in the ADS/RBY insanity.  Joseph's head was down and he was starting to go over.

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4 hours ago, AHamilton said:

Well, we were robbed of a great move and possibly a pin by Marinelli when Cenzo whimpered his way out of backpoints from Marinelli's 3/4 nelson.  This has been lost in the ADS/RBY insanity.  Joseph's head was down and he was starting to go over.

It didn't look to me like Cenzo was starting to go over, I think it was stopped because Marinelli was torquing it across Cenzo's throat. I think if Marinelli hooks the near leg in an Iowa ride (ankle ride? idk) with the 3/4, Cenzo goes over.

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15 minutes ago, pamela said:

It didn't look to me like Cenzo was starting to go over, I think it was stopped because Marinelli was torquing it across Cenzo's throat. I think if Marinelli hooks the near leg in an Iowa ride (ankle ride? idk) with the 3/4, Cenzo goes over.

You are exactly right.  He wasn't about to go over, he kept scooting his hips in, which is exactly what you want to do.  Hamilton didn't hear a whimper, which he first described as crying out, until he got busted on it and then changed to the "whimper".  As soon as the hold was applied around the neck the ref started his count.  The ref blew it, at the four count, when the arm slid across the jugular, which you are supposed to do because it cuts blood from the brain.  One more second and its blown dead anyway. It's also very telling in all his griping about dangerous holds and unsportsmanlike behavior, he fails to acknowledge that even after the ref blew it dead, was banging on both of them yelling "STOP STOP", Marinelli didn't let go for a couple seconds.  But we don't want to talk about that.

Hamilton obviously is not happy with the results of 133 and 165, as evidenced by his asserting make believe from 165 into his 133 arguments.  He's really been reaching the last couple of days, and showing his true colors.  Even making up stories in totally unrelated threads.  (Or maybe his true colors have been out there for awhile and I just haven't noticed him)

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5 hours ago, AHamilton said:

Well, we were robbed of a great move and possibly a pin by Marinelli when Cenzo whimpered his way out of backpoints from Marinelli's 3/4 nelson.  This has been lost in the ADS/RBY insanity.  Joseph's head was down and he was starting to go over.

I've got no dog in this fight, but there is nothing to make me think that Cenzo was anywhere near going over.  The ref stopped it because the arm was across the throat, and Marinelli was very lucky he didn't get dinged for not immediately letting go of that lock when the ref grabbed them...

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18 hours ago, Lurker said:

You are exactly right.  He wasn't about to go over, he kept scooting his hips in, which is exactly what you want to do.  Hamilton didn't hear a whimper, which he first described as crying out, until he got busted on it and then changed to the "whimper".  As soon as the hold was applied around the neck the ref started his count.  The ref blew it, at the four count, when the arm slid across the jugular, which you are supposed to do because it cuts blood from the brain.  One more second and its blown dead anyway. It's also very telling in all his griping about dangerous holds and unsportsmanlike behavior, he fails to acknowledge that even after the ref blew it dead, was banging on both of them yelling "STOP STOP", Marinelli didn't let go for a couple seconds.  But we don't want to talk about that.

Hamilton obviously is not happy with the results of 133 and 165, as evidenced by his asserting make believe from 165 into his 133 arguments.  He's really been reaching the last couple of days, and showing his true colors.  Even making up stories in totally unrelated threads.  (Or maybe his true colors have been out there for awhile and I just haven't noticed him)

Actually, I am perfectly fine with RBY winning and Joseph winning.  They were both deserving.  One was a great match, the other one unfortunately was not.I do not like seeing Desanto being injured, however.  I do not think RBY meant to be malicious, but I do think he was intentionally torquing the knee as a setup.

What I was doing was showing the hypocrisy of PSU fans who insist that Desanto is faking injury to prevent being pinned, etc. etc.

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On 2/1/2020 at 4:43 PM, Molsen said:

That was an amazing match. After that throw, I thought that Cenzo was going to win a comfortable match, just like we've seen Marinelli do in the past. Then Marinelli comes out and hits that reversal. That throw was beautiful, that reversal was slick. Fun match.

That is a position Marinelli clearly worked on and prepared for. I think that is one that Cenzo needs to now prepare for if he's going to go with that ride. 

As a side note, I think Iowa did a tremendous job preparing guys for how they were going to pressure in coming off bottom. Especially Marinelli and Kemerer. 

Hamilton advancing that silly whimpering idea here too? Face palm. 

Edited by TBar1977

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1 hour ago, AHamilton said:

Actually, I am perfectly fine with RBY winning and Joseph winning.  They were both deserving.  One was a great match, the other one unfortunately was not.I do not like seeing Desanto being injured, however.  I do not think RBY meant to be malicious, but I do think he was intentionally torquing the knee as a setup.

What I was doing was showing the hypocrisy of PSU fans who insist that Desanto is faking injury to prevent being pinned, etc. etc.

Sure

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