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BigTenFanboy

Spencer Lee... Lack of Pins

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Why doesnt Spencer seem to go for pins? Imo theres no reason for him to have not pinned Meredith tonight or anyone else hes faced this year for that matter.. while the 1 extra team point in duals doesnt often factor into much with the type of team Iowa has this year, it very well could have tonight..

My only guess is he is preparing himself for his Olympic run... working for multiple turns in a match instead of getting the pin...

 

Thoughts?

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Some people have a style that leads to pins. Some people wear you down a bunch then get the pin. And some people, (spencer lee) scores too many points so by the time his opponent is worn down enough, the tech has already happened.

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6 minutes ago, Molsen said:

Some people have a style that leads to pins. Some people wear you down a bunch then get the pin. And some people, (spencer lee) scores too many points so by the time his opponent is worn down enough, the tech has already happened.

In  high school Lee was a pinning machine.

It honestly doesnt feel like hes going for the pin in these matches, he uses his arm bar tilt all the time where he racks up tons of points. I guess Im just used to seeing guys who out class their opponents so much rack up a 15 point lead (almost like theyre toying with them) then execute the pin...

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5 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

In  high school Lee was a pinning machine.

It honestly doesnt feel like hes going for the pin in these matches, he uses his arm bar tilt all the time where he racks up tons of points. I guess Im just used to seeing guys who out class their opponents so much rack up a 15 point lead (almost like theyre toying with them) then execute the pin...

D1 is a little harder to pin people, then High school. Also, even though I think part of it had to do with injury/the illness, he has gassed hard in the past. So I do think part of it has to do with him wanting to rack up the points in case he does gas. Because he racks them up so fast, he doesn't give himself much room for error if a pinning combination opportunity happens.

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Just now, Molsen said:

D1 is a little harder to pin people, then High school. Also, even though I think part of it had to do with injury/the illness, he has gassed hard in the past. So I do think part of it has to do with him wanting to rack up the points in case he does gas. Because he racks them up so fast, he doesn't give himself much room for error if a pinning combination opportunity happens.

So you agree with me that he doesnt seem to going for the pin? I can absolutely 100% understand and agree with this strategy when going up against top level opponents, but against the guys hes faced in the last 3 matches. He literally has only 2 pins this year.

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You're not watching his matches. He puts most of his opponents in pinning holds, just loses it. You also don't listen to his interviews. He has repeatedly said that he looks for the next score, whatever it might be. It just so happens that the reinforced tilt is almost always there. Whether or not you want to construe that as "he is not looking for the pin" is your deal.

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It looked like he was going for the pin more against tOSU than he was tonight IMO.   At least in that one he was more going for the bar/half as opposed to the tilt.

He shouldn't be pinning "everyone" though.  But he probably could have pinned Meredith.

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9 minutes ago, Mr. Poopy butthole said:

You're not watching his matches. He puts most of his opponents in pinning holds, just loses it. You also don't listen to his interviews. He has repeatedly said that he looks for the next score, whatever it might be. It just so happens that the reinforced tilt is almost always there. Whether or not you want to construe that as "he is not looking for the pin" is your deal.

I've watched every one of his televised matches this year. I also dont think the reinforced bar tilt just so happens to be there. He actively sets it up and goes for it. If it just happens to just be there his opponents are doing a very poor job of avoiding it. If you think hes putting his opponents in pinning holds and "just loses it" you are seriously under his valuing his pinning ability. I for one think he can and should have pinned 5 of his techs this year.

Like I said in the OP he may be doing this as preparation for his upcoming Olympic run.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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5 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

It looked like he was going for the pin more against tOSU than he was tonight IMO.   At least in that one he was more going for the bar/half as opposed to the tilt.

He shouldn't be pinning "everyone" though.  But he probably could have pinned Meredith.

I certainly dont think he should be pinning everyone, but i do think he should have pinned his last 3 opponents Thomson, Lucas, and especially Meredith.

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9 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

I've watched every one of his televised matches this year. I also dont think the reinforced bar tilt just so happens to be there. He actively sets it up and goes for it. If it just happens to just be there his opponents are doing a very poor job of avoiding it. If you think hes putting his opponents in pinning holds and "just loses it" you are seriously under his valuing his pinning ability. I for one think he can and should have pinned 5 of his techs this year.

Like I said in the OP he may be doing this as preparation for his upcoming Olympic run.

I agree that, if we're going to take liberty with deciding what Spencer "should and shouldn't do", he  probably should have, and could have pinned many of opponents this year, especially the last 3. I just don't really jive with the takes being dished out that he doesn't try or just simply can't pin. Not pinning this on you (pun intended) but I've read that take on several boards including this one. As far as how his non-pinning streak relates to getting ready for the oly trials goes, I really don't know about that one. 

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21 minutes ago, Mr. Poopy butthole said:

I agree that, if we're going to take liberty with deciding what Spencer "should and shouldn't do", he  probably should have, and could have pinned many of opponents this year, especially the last 3. I just don't really jive with the takes being dished out that he doesn't try or just simply can't pin. Not pinning this on you (pun intended) but I've read that take on several boards including this one. As far as how his non-pinning streak relates to getting ready for the oly trials goes, I really don't know about that one. 

I wasnt using the word should as a command or what he must do. Perhaps the term "is capable of" would have been more appropriate. But I definitely dont buy into the whole "he was going for it and his opponents slipped out" 

Spencer Lee is on a whole different level and is capable of pinning pretty much anyone if its his prerogative.

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His bar tilt has always been his bread and butter, but in HS, he would transition to his bar/half and get a lot more pins. I think it’s just harder to get the bar/half in college and he just isn’t patient enough to keep working it to look for he fall. He is looking to score points anyway he can, so he ends up teching before he can get the pin. In a tight dual meet like this, he should be going for the pin though. To me that’s a loss for the team only getting a tech here

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9 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

His bar tilt has always been his bread and butter, but in HS, he would transition to his bar/half and get a lot more pins. I think it’s just harder to get the bar/half in college and he just isn’t patient enough to keep working it to look for he fall. He is looking to score points anyway he can, so he ends up teching before he can get the pin. In a tight dual meet like this, he should be going for the pin though. To me that’s a loss for the team only getting a tech here

This!

100% agreed!

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10 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

His bar tilt has always been his bread and butter, but in HS, he would transition to his bar/half and get a lot more pins. I think it’s just harder to get the bar/half in college and he just isn’t patient enough to keep working it to look for he fall. He is looking to score points anyway he can, so he ends up teching before he can get the pin. In a tight dual meet like this, he should be going for the pin though. To me that’s a loss for the team only getting a tech here

Not a bad problem to have if you're the Hawkeyes. 

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Make the tech 20 points or more. If it's harder to reach, a wrestler may opt sooner to go for pin than gamble and waste time and possibly end up with only major ; a gamble that I think most wrestlers/coaches would rather not take. This way a much better man should get the major on the board and set his sights sooner on a pin before time runs out. The new 4 pt NF rule overly encourages techfalls and consequently discourages the goal of pinning, i.e. hurts the sport and guys like Spencer Lee. When the 4pt. nf was established the tech limit should also have been bumped up.

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Should have to wrestler the full time. Only way to make it less would be to pin.

Doesn't matter if you win 122 to 4, if you don't pin you don't end the match early.

He is not going for a pin - just piling up points. The pin is the goal and he isn't making it.

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Right after his match last night, you could see Brands jokingly be like “just a tech? No pin?” to Spencer as he was walking off the mat. As others mentioned, I think he’s capable and works for pins but prioritizes putting up points fast. It’s not a bad strategy.

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20 minutes ago, WillieBoy said:

Should have to wrestler the full time. Only way to make it less would be to pin.

Doesn't matter if you win 122 to 4, if you don't pin you don't end the match early.

He is not going for a pin - just piling up points. The pin is the goal and he isn't making it.

I agree to an extent: If there's nothing left but to pin then the tech is going to be history and every wrestler can no longer look forward to a "heroic" premature tech conclusion.

BUT there is the fan element. We're told too much scoring is boring and Joe and Nancy Smith may fall asleep..Personally, I don't agree. The bout is only 7 minutes. I could see a problem with 8-9 minute bouts like back in the day, but not 7 minutes. 20 point tech or no tech at all.

Edited by Cooch1
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This isn't high school and pins are much harder to come by, even for guys like Lee.

Plus, almost all of his opponents are really only trying to avoid the pin vice really trying to beat Lee.

We all know who difficult it is to pin someone whose sole mission in to avoid giving up 6 team points. 

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I love Spencer Lee.  Love his style and have followed him since 8th grade.  
 

However, there is no doubt that he is focused more on TF’s than pins.  The fact that he rides parallel with the reinforced bar indicates he wants back points, not pins.  He was wrestling a kid who had 8 losses this year and isn’t even in the same stratosphere from a talent perspective.   This dual easily could have come down to a single point, and Spencer certainly could’ve put more effort to look for a half, cradle, bundle etc...
 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, tightwaist said:

I love Spencer Lee.  Love his style and have followed him since 8th grade.  
 

However, there is no doubt that he is focused more on TF’s than pins.  The fact that he rides parallel with the reinforced bar indicates he wants back points, not pins.  He was wrestling a kid who had 8 losses this year and isn’t even in the same stratosphere from a talent perspective.   This dual easily could have come down to a single point, and Spencer certainly could’ve put more effort to look for a half, cradle, bundle etc...
 

 

 

Weird timing. Spencer literally pinned his MSU opponent in the first period just moments prior to this.

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On 2/1/2020 at 12:47 PM, Old Corps said:

This isn't high school and pins are much harder to come by, even for guys like Lee.

Plus, almost all of his opponents are really only trying to avoid the pin vice really trying to beat Lee.

We all know who difficult it is to pin someone whose sole mission in to avoid giving up 6 team points. 

You're right about the difficulty of a pin these days. My only point is why make it harder with the tech acting as a shiny distraction...as currently defined.  

A pin is a more surprising climax; a techfall is an anti-climax everybody sees coming down the stretch.  no surprise

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