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irani

My wish for each wrestling country

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I know none of these will happen in the near future, but here is one thing I wish each wrestling country would do differently.

 

  1. Russia - Get hard vigilant against juicing, and get rid of it once and for all.  Russian wrestlers are already very good, no need for juicing
  2. USA - Get rid of folkstyle wrestling at the college and high school levels (at least college levels) , and replace it with Freestyle wrestling.  I guarantee US would do much better in world championships and olympics
  3. Iran - Stop the stupid policy of avoiding athletes from Israel.  Go back to the days before the revolution where Iranian wrestlers pinned Israeli wrestlers left and and right
  4. Countries that suck in wrestling (e.g. Bahrain) .  Instead of paying good wrestlers from other countries to change their citizenship to yours and wrestler for you, do what India did, invest in some good foreign coaches, and turn your program around.

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While changing from a folk to freestyle rule set would undoubtedly help us on the international stage, some of us actually prefer watching folkstyle. Folkstyle is its own sport and we shouldn’t let the international scene dictate what we wrestle in college. Perhaps there’s a happy medium, like introducing 1pt step outs. 
 

And while it’s hindered our success, freestyle exposure starting at the youth level helps compensate. I think we’ve beaten Iran in 3 straight world championships. 

Edited by AZ_wrestling

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3 hours ago, AZ_wrestling said:

While changing from a folk to freestyle rule set would undoubtedly help us on the international stage, some of us actually prefer watching folkstyle.

I understand that, but I believe and hope that those of who prefer folkstyle to freestyle are in the minority

3 hours ago, AZ_wrestling said:

And while it’s hindered our success, freestyle exposure starting at the youth level helps compensate. I think we’ve beaten Iran in 3 straight world championships. 

I hope the US sets its goals higher than just beating Iran.  My point is that if the talented wrestlers started in freestyle at a younger age, US could win more world championships, and more gold medals

Edited by irani

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10 hours ago, irani said:

I know none of these will happen in the near future, but here is one thing I wish each wrestling country would do differently.

 

  1. Russia - Get hard vigilant against juicing, and get rid of it once and for all.  Russian wrestlers are already very good, no need for juicing
  2. USA - Get rid of folkstyle wrestling at the college and high school levels (at least college levels) , and replace it with Freestyle wrestling.  I guarantee US would do much better in world championships and olympics
  3. Iran - Stop the stupid policy of avoiding athletes from Israel.  Go back to the days before the revolution where Iranian wrestlers pinned Israeli wrestlers left and and right
  4. Countries that suck in wrestling (e.g. Bahrain) .  Instead of paying good wrestlers from other countries to change their citizenship to yours and wrestler for you, do what India did, invest in some good foreign coaches, and turn your program around.

4.  Most countries don't care about wrestling.  Even in the US it isn't very popular, at least not on the same level as professional leagues for other sports.  It's kind of on an upswing because of MMA, but also kind of in decline because people don't like to work hard and things like E-Sports are actually more lucrative and require less physical work.  Places like Bahrain and Qatar have different problems because they have large non-citizen or expat populations and a lot less actual citizens.  I think of the few million residents in Qatar only like 30% are actually Qatari citizens.  Bahrain is pretty similar.  Athletics in general aren't really encouraged all that much, it's seen more as a recreational pursuit and not something to dedicate more than a couple of free hours a week towards.  I spent a little time in the UAE in 2018 and most citizens or residents there just play sports as a hobby.  If the gulf countries ever wanted to get serious about it, they would, but they are content to just buy athletes.  To them it's a minimal investment and they don't have to invest a lot in creating a system that coaches athletes from youth into adulthood, when they can just pay top athletes to compete for them and skip all that.  A guy who used to come into my gym was from an aristocratic family in Saudi Arabia and he said that most of their sports are recreational except for football/soccer, and that was pretty much the only sport their government invested resources into.  I asked him about what it would take to get wrestling going and he said that it might be popular among the less wealthy citizens, but unless it had the blessing of the wealthier circles or the royal family it wouldn't go anywhere.  Football/soccer is also extremely popular with the less wealthy citizens there because they can get paid very well if they are good at it and play for top club teams or the Saudi national team.  It would take a lot for wrestling to catch on in these places. 

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11 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

4.  Most countries don't care about wrestling.  Even in the US it isn't very popular, at least not on the same level as professional leagues for other sports.  It's kind of on an upswing because of MMA, but also kind of in decline because people don't like to work hard and things like E-Sports are actually more lucrative and require less physical work.  Places like Bahrain and Qatar have different problems because they have large non-citizen or expat populations and a lot less actual citizens.  I think of the few million residents in Qatar only like 30% are actually Qatari citizens.  Bahrain is pretty similar.  Athletics in general aren't really encouraged all that much, it's seen more as a recreational pursuit and not something to dedicate more than a couple of free hours a week towards.  I spent a little time in the UAE in 2018 and most citizens or residents there just play sports as a hobby.  If the gulf countries ever wanted to get serious about it, they would, but they are content to just buy athletes.  To them it's a minimal investment and they don't have to invest a lot in creating a system that coaches athletes from youth into adulthood, when they can just pay top athletes to compete for them and skip all that.  A guy who used to come into my gym was from an aristocratic family in Saudi Arabia and he said that most of their sports are recreational except for football/soccer, and that was pretty much the only sport their government invested resources into.  I asked him about what it would take to get wrestling going and he said that it might be popular among the less wealthy citizens, but unless it had the blessing of the wealthier circles or the royal family it wouldn't go anywhere.  Football/soccer is also extremely popular with the less wealthy citizens there because they can get paid very well if they are good at it and play for top club teams or the Saudi national team.  It would take a lot for wrestling to catch on in these places. 

Yes, you are correct on your points above.  But let me point out an interesting change in attitude.  In Soccer, for years, Qatar fielded a national team that was a collection of Brazilian, African and other nationalities that they had paid to become Qatari citizens,  and try to compete with the regional powerhouses.

About 8 years ago, they hired a very qualified Spanish coach who launched an academy for the youth, and coached their U21 team.  Last year, they made him the national coach, and they shocked everyone by winning the Asia cup.  They destroyed Japan in the finals.  They had very few purchased foreign born players on their team, and most of their players were the people who went through the youth academy.

My point is that even a small country can try to build it's youth, instead of buying foreign players.  It's more effective, scalable and certainly more honorable.

Edited by irani

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7 hours ago, irani said:

Yes, you are correct on your points above.  But let me point out an interesting change in attitude.  In Soccer, for years, Qatar fielded a national team that was a collection of Brazilian, African and other nationalities that they had paid to become Qatari citizens,  and try to compete with the regional powerhouses.

About 8 years ago, they hired a very qualified Spanish coach who launched an academy for the youth, and coached their U21 team.  Last year, they made him the national coach, and they shocked everyone by winning the Asia cup.  They destroyed Japan in the finals.  They had very few purchased foreign born players on their team, and most of their players were the people who went through the youth academy.

My point is that even a small country can try to build it's youth, instead of buying foreign players.  It's more effective, scalable and certainly more honorable.

Soccer is also the most popular and widely played sport in the world.  Outside of parts of Russia, Iran, Mongolia and pockets in various countries, wrestling is nowhere near as popular.  It isn't surprising to hear that al-Thani put some money and influence into that, probably because they didn't want to field a team of foreign mercenaries when they host the world cup in a few years.  If the world wrestling championships had the same kind of fanbase and viewership that the world cup does and Qatar was going to host it, I would bet that al-Thani would dedicate money to it.  As it is they hosted the world beach wrestling championships there and it was buried in coverage of all kinds of other sports.  I completely agree that if Qatar, Bahrain, UAE or any of the gulf countries wanted to, it wouldn't be hard to have a program like you described for wrestling.  The problem is they don't care, wrestling isn't popular enough, and that's what it boils down to.  Look at the big events that they host. Tennis, golf, auto racing.  Sports with a ton of viewership and very well paying sponsors that cater to wealthy or wannabe wealthy people.  Wrestling would probably have less fans than a camel race, which is a very popular and traditional event in that part of the world, not intending it as a joke. 

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26 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

Soccer is also the most popular and widely played sport in the world.  Outside of parts of Russia, Iran, Mongolia and pockets in various countries, wrestling is nowhere near as popular.  It isn't surprising to hear that al-Thani put some money and influence into that, probably because they didn't want to field a team of foreign mercenaries when they host the world cup in a few years.  If the world wrestling championships had the same kind of fanbase and viewership that the world cup does and Qatar was going to host it, I would bet that al-Thani would dedicate money to it.  As it is they hosted the world beach wrestling championships there and it was buried in coverage of all kinds of other sports.  I completely agree that if Qatar, Bahrain, UAE or any of the gulf countries wanted to, it wouldn't be hard to have a program like you described for wrestling.  The problem is they don't care, wrestling isn't popular enough, and that's what it boils down to.  Look at the big events that they host. Tennis, golf, auto racing.  Sports with a ton of viewership and very well paying sponsors that cater to wealthy or wannabe wealthy people.  Wrestling would probably have less fans than a camel race, which is a very popular and traditional event in that part of the world, not intending it as a joke. 

I agree with everything you wrote.

My point is, if wrestling is not popular, then a country like Bahrain should just ignore it, instead of hiring mercenaries ,

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29 minutes ago, irani said:

I agree with everything you wrote.

My point is, if wrestling is not popular, then a country like Bahrain should just ignore it, instead of hiring mercenaries ,

I'm not on the inside of who made that decision or why they did it.  My guess is that it was a mutual thing since Batirov couldn't make the Russian team anymore and decided to shop himself, being Muslim also helped too.  I'd like to think Bahrain brought him on with the understanding him being successful would spark more interest in wrestling, and who knows, maybe it has. I've never been to Bahrain so I wouldn't know if Batirov was popular or well known.  I know MMA is pretty popular there and they seem to be big fans of former ASU NCAA champion and junior world champion Bubba Jenkins.  Given the relative inexpensiveness of wrestling, you'd think that one of the gulf countries would decide that they were going to fund it heavily.  

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On 2/3/2020 at 6:21 PM, irani said:

I know none of these will happen in the near future, but here is one thing I wish each wrestling country would do differently.

 

  1. Russia - Get hard vigilant against juicing, and get rid of it once and for all.  Russian wrestlers are already very good, no need for juicing
  2. USA - Get rid of folkstyle wrestling at the college and high school levels (at least college levels) , and replace it with Freestyle wrestling.  I guarantee US would do much better in world championships and olympics
  3. Iran - Stop the stupid policy of avoiding athletes from Israel.  Go back to the days before the revolution where Iranian wrestlers pinned Israeli wrestlers left and and right
  4. Countries that suck in wrestling (e.g. Bahrain) .  Instead of paying good wrestlers from other countries to change their citizenship to yours and wrestler for you, do what India did, invest in some good foreign coaches, and turn your program around.

Great points, I agree with everything except number 2. I'm not american, but I really enjoy folkstyle wrestling with all the the mat wrestling and control, in terms of points in the mat wrestling phase of the match, I prefer folkstyle controlled back exposition of 2-4 seconds (2-4 points) over the quick turns in freestyle.

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On 2/3/2020 at 1:21 PM, irani said:

 

  1. USA - Get rid of folkstyle wrestling at the college and high school levels (at least college levels) , and replace it with Freestyle wrestling.  I guarantee US would do much better in world championships and olympics

I just talked about this with a foreign athlete who coaches at the high school I graduated from.  They bring up some good points about how folkstyle encourages creative movements from neutral and that the par terre in folkstyle is much more difficult because you can't stall or just relax like in freestyle.  They also said that the USA right now has some of the best in the world, like when Kyle Dake and David Taylor won worlds, people back in their country were like "Who are these guys and where did they come from?" because they didn't really pay attention to folkstyle or college wrestling so a lot of people were unaware of how good they are.  

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I just talked about this with a foreign athlete who coaches at the high school I graduated from.  They bring up some good points about how folkstyle encourages creative movements from neutral and that the par terre in folkstyle is much more difficult because you can't stall or just relax like in freestyle.  They also said that the USA right now has some of the best in the world, like when Kyle Dake and David Taylor won worlds, people back in their country were like "Who are these guys and where did they come from?" because they didn't really pay attention to folkstyle or college wrestling so a lot of people were unaware of how good they are.  
If you relax on bottom in freestyle you're going to be tech falled in short order.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

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32 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

I just talked about this with a foreign athlete who coaches at the high school I graduated from.  They bring up some good points about how folkstyle encourages creative movements from neutral and that the par terre in folkstyle is much more difficult because you can't stall or just relax like in freestyle.  They also said that the USA right now has some of the best in the world, like when Kyle Dake and David Taylor won worlds, people back in their country were like "Who are these guys and where did they come from?" because they didn't really pay attention to folkstyle or college wrestling so a lot of people were unaware of how good they are.  

It is true that folkstyle rules give you a lot more reason to try hard to escape or reverse as in freestyle your best bottom strategy is to stall.

However, that is a skill that Americans have, and folkstyle or not, they can teach their wrestlers to do that.

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8 hours ago, irani said:

It is true that folkstyle rules give you a lot more reason to try hard to escape or reverse as in freestyle your best bottom strategy is to stall.

However, that is a skill that Americans have, and folkstyle or not, they can teach their wrestlers to do that.

Their obervation is that the pace of folkstyle is a lot different, because there's no real break in the action like there is in freestyle.  Being better conditioned and constantly having to work because stalling calls are more frequent than passivity calls in freestyle.  Defending in par terre is different too because you have to be able to get out on your own, not just hold on for 15 seconds or so.  The other thing that is noted by them is that folkstyle rewards creative thinking and that it allows a lot of space for things like techniques to use in scrambles, countering those scrambles, etc.  I'm not talking about the kind of stuff where you expose your back, but just different things that people might not consider due to the way freestyle has its rules.  I don't think you'll see people trying to do leg passes but things that have come about because of that way of wrestling.

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6 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

 The other thing that is noted by them is that folkstyle rewards creative thinking...

i'm not going to bother with everything that i take umbrage with in your posts above...

but, i just can't let this slide without pointing it out specifically...

i could not disagree more... the stallfest rewards not wrestling... it is not even a debate...

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