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Spey "defense" on FRL today was brutal

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After threatening to mute everyone on Twitter who disagreed with his rankings method Spey was on FRL this morning with tail deeply between his legs. Seems obvious that the higher ups at Flo got to him and reminded him that he worked for a website that was supported by user subscriptions (oh, and a fair bit of mortgage ads) and that perhaps blocking his dues paying customers on Twitter was not the optimal business model. 

Probably the funniest part is when he tries to reconcile his method with the opposite method used by Nomad when doing dual rankings. Nomad says all results count. Spey says injury defaults do not count. Then he tries to claim that his method is identical to Nomad's by saying it is just like a rain out for a team. Then he walked that silliness back and said it is like when a coach pulls his team from the mat without finishing a dual. It was almost uncomfortable watching him squirm. Almost.

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27 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

After threatening to mute everyone on Twitter who disagreed with his rankings method Spey was on FRL this morning with tail deeply between his legs. Seems obvious that the higher ups at Flo got to him and reminded him that he worked for a website that was supported by user subscriptions (oh, and a fair bit of mortgage ads) and that perhaps blocking his dues paying customers on Twitter was not the optimal business model. 

Probably the funniest part is when he tries to reconcile his method with the opposite method used by Nomad when doing dual rankings. Nomad says all results count. Spey says injury defaults do not count. Then he tries to claim that his method is identical to Nomad's by saying it is just like a rain out for a team. Then he walked that silliness back and said it is like when a coach pulls his team from the mat without finishing a dual. It was almost uncomfortable watching him squirm. Almost.

I listened as well and Spey comes off as being about as thin skinned as you can be. When discussing 149, the biggest matchup of the weekend was Mauller vs Lewallen and the first thing Spey says is “I didn’t see that one.” So the guy making the rankings hasn’t bothered to watch #1 vs. #6?? Yikes. Obviously no one can be expected to watch every single match, but I feel like he should at least make a point to have seen and be ready to discuss every top 10 (maybe even top 15) matchup before he does rankings. 
 

Not a Flo hater by any means, but sometimes I just feel like they can be such a foot in their mouth company. 

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He was clearly kidding with his Tweet, and he explained his reasoning regarding INJ DFT.  He says Nolf wasn't penalized a few years ago under the same idea even though he technically "lost" the match.  It's a process decision, you can't just go thru and determine which INJ DFTs should count for seeding and which ones should not, including the fact that you ahve no idea what happens at the end of a match, with the Rohn-Lambrecht (still hurts to this day) example prominently mentioned.  Ranking is different then seeding, which I think will be affected by the match at B1Gs.

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3 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Probably the funniest part is when he tries to reconcile his method with the opposite method used by Nomad when doing dual rankings. Nomad says all results count. Spey says injury defaults do not count. Then he tries to claim that his method is identical to Nomad's by saying it is just like a rain out for a team. Then he walked that silliness back and said it is like when a coach pulls his team from the mat without finishing a dual. It was almost uncomfortable watching him squirm. Almost.

Nomad doesn't do the dual meet rankings, Bratke does. We talked today and we both agree that both sets of rankings are philosophically and methodically consistant. Sorry I didn't do a better job of explaining why that is the case. Maybe one day I'll get the point across. 

I also didn't block anyone, tho I did mute some folks on twitter. Hasn't come up with the bosses yet mute but maybe I'll be forced to unmute everyone or perhaps just delete my account and just use burners. we shall see! 

bottom line tho is thank you for watching. I much prefer that and some critiques and negative feedback than no one paying attention at all!

2 hours ago, goheels1812 said:

I listened as well and Spey comes off as being about as thin skinned as you can be. When discussing 149, the biggest matchup of the weekend was Mauller vs Lewallen and the first thing Spey says is “I didn’t see that one.” So the guy making the rankings hasn’t bothered to watch #1 vs. #6?? Yikes. Obviously no one can be expected to watch every single match, but I feel like he should at least make a point to have seen and be ready to discuss every top 10 (maybe even top 15) matchup before he does rankings. 

i mean, it's literally a matter of minutes in the day, but I am still interested in watching the Mauller Lewallen match. if anyone wants to send me a link I would be much obliged!

also call me think skinned one more time, i dare you!

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30 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

Nomad doesn't do the dual meet rankings, Bratke does. We talked today and we both agree that both sets of rankings are philosophically and methodically consistant. Sorry I didn't do a better job of explaining why that is the case. Maybe one day I'll get the point across. 

I also didn't block anyone, tho I did mute some folks on twitter. Hasn't come up with the bosses yet mute but maybe I'll be forced to unmute everyone or perhaps just delete my account and just use burners. we shall see! 

bottom line tho is thank you for watching. I much prefer that and some critiques and negative feedback than no one paying attention at all!

i mean, it's literally a matter of minutes in the day, but I am still interested in watching the Mauller Lewallen match. if anyone wants to send me a link I would be much obliged!

also call me think skinned one more time, i dare you!

Dont agree with your take but respect and accept it. Love your show btw.

 

With that said..

 

YOU'RE THIN SKINNED!!!

 

(LOL waiting to see what happens!)

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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5 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

i mean, it's literally a matter of minutes in the day, but I am still interested in watching the Mauller Lewallen match. if anyone wants to send me a link I would be much obliged!

also call me think skinned one more time, i dare you!

Completely understand. Thanks for the reply. Maybe you aren’t so thin skinned after all ;)

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Let me preface this by saying that rankings are nothing but conversation points. They have nothing to do with seedings and effect on tournament results. Given that they are just conversation points, why not have an element of subjectivity? What FLO is admitting is, a good software program could do an infinitely better job than a ranker. There is a lot more on the line with College Football CFP rankings, and that committee uses all kinds of subjectivity. They factor injuries, home or away, time of year, dominance, bad losses/good losses, etc...into their rankings. And if you do use these subjective factors in your rankings, why not factor default results in with the other subjective factors? It would actually make your rankings more interesting, because it requires you to take a stand BEYOND "I took and oath". That oath is less meaningful than the results of a defaulted match. And anyone with the experience to have been given the responsibility to rank athletes, can tell how much the athlete was affected and what the score was at the time of default. As an example, look at the last minute of Nolf vs. Cenzo at the Farrell and the last minute of the RBY vs. Desanto match. It is clear to see what the injury effect was.

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I can kinda see the argument for saying “why would you count some injury defaults and not others?” but I would bet it’s pretty rare for injury defaults to happen in matches between 2 pretty evenly ranked wrestlers, plus when one of them would have had a pretty commanding lead at the time of the default.  I really don’t see how anyone would not consider that a win for RBY over DeSanto.

BTW the OSU/Mizzou match was on ESPN+.   It’s on YouTube now but given Flo’s stance on people stealing their streams, I would hope Flo would be able to pony up to pay for their employees to have access to the other streaming services (to see what the competition is doing, to be able to do proper research for their job, and heck even to “grow the sport”).

Edited by 1032004

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6 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

Nomad doesn't do the dual meet rankings, Bratke does. We talked today and we both agree that both sets of rankings are philosophically and methodically consistant. Sorry I didn't do a better job of explaining why that is the case. Maybe one day I'll get the point across. 

I also didn't block anyone, tho I did mute some folks on twitter. Hasn't come up with the bosses yet mute but maybe I'll be forced to unmute everyone or perhaps just delete my account and just use burners. we shall see! 

bottom line tho is thank you for watching. I much prefer that and some critiques and negative feedback than no one paying attention at all!

i mean, it's literally a matter of minutes in the day, but I am still interested in watching the Mauller Lewallen match. if anyone wants to send me a link I would be much obliged!

also call me think skinned one more time, i dare you!

Haters are going to hate.

Where are their rankings that have tens of thousands of subscribers?

Had his coach not outted him and said he could have finished had he not had a mental lapse, I might understand your argument.

Also comparing Nolf to Desanto map be apt, however the method of Inj Def is not, nor was the momentum of the match, and especially not the aptitude/ability of the opponent that actually won. Van Brill barely made the blood round one year.

To penalize the grappler who was clearly better and actually controlling the points scored when they are so close in ranking isn't an appropriate methodology to apply.

All this being said? Don't back down next time. Let your watermelons hang out yournshorts if you're going to preach that you have them.

 

*Note: I don't believe RBY is clearly better. For that match he was, though 

Edited by nhs67
Added bottom note

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1 hour ago, 82bordeaux said:

Let me preface this by saying that rankings are nothing but conversation points. They have nothing to do with seedings and effect on tournament results. Given that they are just conversation points, why not have an element of subjectivity? What FLO is admitting is, a good software program could do an infinitely better job than a ranker. There is a lot more on the line with College Football CFP rankings, and that committee uses all kinds of subjectivity. They factor injuries, home or away, time of year, dominance, bad losses/good losses, etc...into their rankings. And if you do use these subjective factors in your rankings, why not factor default results in with the other subjective factors? It would actually make your rankings more interesting, because it requires you to take a stand BEYOND "I took and oath". That oath is less meaningful than the results of a defaulted match. And anyone with the experience to have been given the responsibility to rank athletes, can tell how much the athlete was affected and what the score was at the time of default. As an example, look at the last minute of Nolf vs. Cenzo at the Farrell and the last minute of the RBY vs. Desanto match. It is clear to see what the injury effect was.

Rankings play a huge factor in seeding. Coaches rank is basically Flo+Intermat. 

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

Haters are going to hate.

Where are their rankings that have tens of thousands of subscribers?

Had his coach not outted him and said he could have finished had he not had a mental lapse, I might understand your argument.

Also comparing Nolf to Desanto map be apt, however the method of Inj Def is not, nor was the momentum of the match, and especially not the aptitude/ability of the opponent that actually won. Van Brill barely made the blood round one year.

To penalize the grappler who was clearly better and actually controlling the points scored when they are so close in ranking isn't an appropriate methodology to apply.

All this being said? Don't back down next time. Let your watermelons hang out yournshorts if you're going to preach that you have them.

 

*Note: I don't believe RBY is clearly better. For that match he was, though 

We see guys get comebacks all the time. We see worse wrestlers beat better wrestlers constantly. 
  
Being ahead at any given point in a match doesn’t mean you will win. 
  
Especially with a guy like Desanto, how could you possible count him out from a comeback? He is often attacking late in matches. He is in Carver, where he has pulled off last minute wins multiple times against guys better than him. I’m not saying he would have won, but the whole point is we don’t know. 
  
I agree with Spey. Leaving the discretion up to the rankers about who won the match and whether it should be counted is not a good strategy. 
 

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2 minutes ago, jon said:

So much for """big-boy sports""" lol.

Sad to see Flo rankings hold sway. Folks behind 'em are just fans. Not experts. Not even skilled. Worst of all: Averse to critique and unwilling to take ownership of mistakes.

perfectly describes the 'flo boys'  fan boys

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5 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

Nolf/VanBrill and DeSanto/RBY were totally different animals. If Nolf hadn't defaulted he'd have doubtlessly teched or pinned (probably pinned) VanBrill. DeSanto was trailing 11-1 and about to get teched.

How do you get 11-1? Are you giving RBY 2 NF for the first cradle and 4 for the second?

Based on what actually happened he could've gotten 2 NF at the end which would've been 7-1.  And then would've had choice again.

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

How do you get 11-1? Are you giving RBY 2 NF for the first cradle and 4 for the second?

Based on what actually happened he could've gotten 2 NF at the end which would've been 7-1.  And then would've had choice again.

He didn't actually get awarded the last few points, right? Maybe I need to watch it again.

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8 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

Nomad doesn't do the dual meet rankings, Bratke does. We talked today and we both agree that both sets of rankings are philosophically and methodically consistant. Sorry I didn't do a better job of explaining why that is the case. Maybe one day I'll get the point across. 

I also didn't block anyone, tho I did mute some folks on twitter. Hasn't come up with the bosses yet mute but maybe I'll be forced to unmute everyone or perhaps just delete my account and just use burners. we shall see! 

bottom line tho is thank you for watching. I much prefer that and some critiques and negative feedback than no one paying attention at all!

i mean, it's literally a matter of minutes in the day, but I am still interested in watching the Mauller Lewallen match. if anyone wants to send me a link I would be much obliged!

also call me think skinned one more time, i dare you!

So you don't block people? Weak sauce.

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