Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Bronco

Mind-boggling new rankings on WrestleStat

Recommended Posts

One example  - Shane Griffith defeated # 4 ranked Joshua Shields last Friday night in double overtime.  Yet Griffith was moved DOWN one spot on the WrestleStat rankings to # 6 this week - and Sheilds remains ranked # 4.   Someone has to explain the logic of this to me.  I will never understand how that can be the case.   Griffith is now 22-0 and Sheilds in 15-4 and Griffith has a win over Sheilds yet Sheilds is somehow ranked two spots ahead of Griffith......................simply MIND-BOGGLING.

https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/starters

what the hell.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Bronco said:

One example  - Shane Griffith defeated # 4 ranked Joshua Shields last Friday night in double overtime.  Yet Griffith was moved DOWN one spot on the WrestleStat rankings to # 6 this week - and Sheilds remains ranked # 4.   Someone has to explain the logic of this to me.  I will never understand how that can be the case.   Griffith is now 22-0 and Sheilds in 15-4 and Griffith has a win over Sheilds yet Sheilds is somehow ranked two spots ahead of Griffith......................simply MIND-BOGGLING.

https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/starters

what the hell.jpg

It's all done by a computer the algorithm still needs some work .Wrestlestat rankings are getting way better.They can still give you a chuckle now and then but in the past they were pure comedy.The algorithm this year is much improved

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These threads happen every week. 
  
wrestlestat doesn’t use head to head for their ratings. They also don’t just use this season. It isn’t a ranking like you are used to. It has its purpose however, and by the end of the season is a very useful resource when figuring out ncaa placements 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, calot said:

It's all done by a computer the algorithm still needs some work .Wrestlestat rankings are getting way better.They can still give you a chuckle now and then but in the past they were pure comedy.The algorithm this year is much improved

Wrestlestat needs to eyeball these rankings and make adjustments. It's a huge weakness simply to rely on an algorithm. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, headache said:

Wrestlestat needs to eyeball these rankings and make adjustments. It's a huge weakness simply to rely on an algorithm. 

No it would be crazy for them to change their entire methodology, which completely screws up the data analysis in the future, because their rating system doesn’t match up to week to week rankings some of the time. 
  
consistency is key in a system like this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, headache said:

Wrestlestat needs to eyeball these rankings and make adjustments. It's a huge weakness simply to rely on an algorithm. 

Wrestlestat is tweaking the algorithm and getting closer and closer.Theyre not claiming to be a ranking source.Its the best place to get results.Dont look so close at the rankings for now but soon they will be a one stop shop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wrestle stat also has some awesome features you cant find elsewhere. They have the tournament projections, head to head comparisons, common opponents, etc right at the tip of your fingers. I absolutely love wrestle stat. Sometimes the rankings are a little wonky, but like others have said it’s an algorithm and they have to stick with it while continuing to tweak it for improvements. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, goheels1812 said:

Wrestle stat also has some awesome features you cant find elsewhere. They have the tournament projections, head to head comparisons, common opponents, etc right at the tip of your fingers. I absolutely love wrestle stat. Sometimes the rankings are a little wonky, but like others have said it’s an algorithm and they have to stick with it while continuing to tweak it for improvements. 

It's the best. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

The rankings on wrestlestat are pretty crazy sometimes. I still love that site though because it's the only place that compiles the wrestler's records. Hats off to andregre.

Agreed here. 

I remember when he first unveiled wrestlstat...  it was an overload.  Now it's a goto.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the responses, everyone.

 

What the others posted above is spot-on for the reasoning. There's just 1 thing that I'd add in defense of WrestleStat's ELO rating system used for the rankings:

If you check the individual pages for the two wrestlers, Griffith moved up almost 4 ELO points, desipite dropping 1 position in rankings, while Shields moved down 3.5 ELO points, despite staying ranked the same.

Those two guys were fairly close prior to this weeks rankings (roughly 9 ELO points apart), and now after the 7.5 point ELO change between the two, they are now only 1.5 ELO points apart. That's close enough where, if Griffith majors his next opponent, while Shields only gets a regular DEC, that will probably be enough for them to flip-flop in rankings.

(Check the rank history tab on each of their profiles)

Griffith: https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/49991/griffith-shane/profile

Shields: https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/39511/shields-josh/profile

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bronco said:

One example  - Shane Griffith defeated # 4 ranked Joshua Shields last Friday night in double overtime.  Yet Griffith 

Given it's more of a rating than ranking can you tell us how much you think one's rating should change from a mind-bogglingly double overtime win?  ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Housebuye said:

These threads happen every week. 
  
wrestlestat doesn’t use head to head for their ratings. They also don’t just use this season. It isn’t a ranking like you are used to. It has its purpose however, and by the end of the season is a very useful resource when figuring out ncaa placements 

Aren't the NCAA placements figured out by the matches wrestled at NCAAs?  What am I missing here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to see the fundamentals of how ELO works, take a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

Like anything else, the system becomes more robust with more data. A freshman is going to see a lot more variance because of fewer matches wrestled.

Edited by ugarte

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey.............I AM a fan of WrestleStat - have been since I first became away of it.  So to try to paint this as me not liking or understanding WrestleStat is as absurd as their current ranking method.

An example of a ranking system that is not absurd in the extreme is the latest Intermat rankings at 165 lbs where Shane Griffith is now ranked # 4 (up from 7 last week) and Josh Shields dropped from # 4 last week down to # 8 this week.  GO FIGURE.

https://intermatwrestle.com/rankings/college/165?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Hey.............I AM a fan of WrestleStat - have been since I first became away of it.  So to try to paint this as me not liking or understanding WrestleStat is as absurd as their current ranking method.

An example of a ranking system that is not absurd in the extreme is the latest Intermat rankings at 165 lbs where Shane Griffith is now ranked # 4 (up from 7 last week) and Josh Shields dropped from # 4 last week down to # 8 this week.  GO FIGURE.

https://intermatwrestle.com/rankings/college/165?

Intermat is done by a human.Wrestlestat a computer.You say you understand Wrestlestat then compare it to Intermat who's done by a human.We all understand that when you beat a guy you usually jump him that's our brain and the human component.Wrestlestat takes way more into consideration then the last result 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, AZ_wrestling said:

I can’t say enough positive things about wrestlestat. Perfect? Of course not. But the fact that we even have a organized system for ranking and recording wrestler records is fantastic. A lot of selfless work being done by them. 

Yes, many thanks to @andegre - what a resource!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bronco said:

Hey.............I AM a fan of WrestleStat - have been since I first became away of it.  So to try to paint this as me not liking or understanding WrestleStat is as absurd as their current ranking method.

An example of a ranking system that is not absurd in the extreme is the latest Intermat rankings at 165 lbs where Shane Griffith is now ranked # 4 (up from 7 last week) and Josh Shields dropped from # 4 last week down to # 8 this week.  GO FIGURE.

https://intermatwrestle.com/rankings/college/165?

If Magnus Carlsen loses a chess game to the #5 player in the world he doesn't fall behind him because the thousands of rated games that both of them have played mean more than the result that happened yesterday. Yes, it is certainly possible that a head to head loss can flip wrestlers - given the small sample size it probably happens a lot - but given how few matches Griffith has, and how many Shields does, the computer doesn't make the same subjective eye-test judgment that you do. It doesn't mean that the computer is right but it also is just a different thing than the eye-test, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately style rankings that you are looking for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...