Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
nom

OTT brackets for 74kg and 86kg

Recommended Posts

Ben Askren went nuts on FRL today about how the brackets are being drawn up for weight classes where someone is sitting in the semi final.  Focus was on the 74kg bracket with Dake sitting in the semis.

Can someone break down the issue here?  Would love to see a rationale and calm discussion of the bracket approach being proposed and alternative approaches. (LOL)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, nom said:

Ben Askren went nuts on FRL today about how the brackets are being drawn up for weight classes where someone is sitting in the semi final.  Focus was on the 74kg bracket with Dake sitting in the semis.

Can someone break down the issue here?  Would love to see a rationale and calm discussion of the bracket approach being proposed and alternative approaches. (LOL)

I think the big confusion between the two us that with 74 keggers, Dake is the presumed 1 seed, yet according to the criteria will still sit with a bye to the trials tournament semis, on the bottom half of that bracket.  He will have ti win the semis then the trials tournament finals to make the best of three the following day against JB.

Taylor will likely qualify the weight and will be sitting at the 1 seed due to that. So Cox then gets the 2 seed of the trials tournament(meaning only one win for him to get to the best of three finals(against whoever comes out of the top half). It is looking to me like Zahid as the three seed.

So the brackets are entirely screwy and difficult to understand. Askren isn't an idiot. He is rather smart and has been looking at and understanding brackets for nearly 40 years. This is just perplexing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I think the big confusion between the two us that with 74 keggers, Dake is the presumed 1 seed, yet according to the criteria will still sit with a bye to the trials tournament semis, on the bottom half of that bracket.  He will have ti win the semis then the trials tournament finals to make the best of three the following day against JB.

Taylor will likely qualify the weight and will be sitting at the 1 seed due to that. So Cox then gets the 2 seed of the trials tournament(meaning only one win for him to get to the best of three finals(against whoever comes out of the top half). It is looking to me like Zahid as the three seed.

So the brackets are entirely screwy and difficult to understand. Askren isn't an idiot. He is rather smart and has been looking at and understanding brackets for nearly 40 years. This is just perplexing.

I don’t think it’s that screwy. Difference in 74 has someone sitting in the best of 3 and 86 does not makes them different but I don’t think they’re that screwy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I don’t think it’s that screwy. Difference in 74 has someone sitting in the best of 3 and 86 does not makes them different but I don’t think they’re that screwy. 

Well in the 74 kegger bracket the one seed is on the bottom. That is screwy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Well in the 74 kegger bracket the one seed is on the bottom. That is screwy.

In a way I guess. They said from the get go the medalist from another weight would go in bottom half of bracket. 
 

That said I haven’t seen Askrens piece and I haven’t delved much into how the top five seeds could end up so maybe I’m missing that perspective 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The bracket Askren made all the first round seeds  add up to 15.What it also does is give Dake the winner of the 4&5  in the semis which makes sense.Another issue with USAW bracket is they made it for 9 guys but the Ncaa champ and 2 from last chance will be in the bracket.Unless they take the 8vs11 and 9vs10 and pigtail them into the 7 and 8 slot.USAW bracket has Dake wrestling the winner of the 2&3 in the semis

Edited by justafan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, nom said:

@justafan - thank you.  do you have a link or an image of the bracket showing the later approach you mentioned?

Go to Ben Askren twitter scroll down to Feb 3.Jon Kozak has pictures of both Ben and USAW 

Edited by calot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually I am okay with the way they confirmed it happening, with the brackets.  It's essentially a standard bracket.  Topside semi-finalist winner gets a bye where the bottom faces Dake for a shot at the tourney championship finals.  Winner of the finals meets JB in best of three.

This also allows clarity for the 86 keggers as well.

Neither Dake nor Cox get a seed.  They seed the rest.  Winner of topside 'semi' of the tournament gets a bye while Cox wrestles the winner of the bottom side 'semi' in the actual semis.

Easy to understand now(for me).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

Actually I am okay with the way they confirmed it happening, with the brackets.  It's essentially a standard bracket.  Topside semi-finalist winner gets a bye where the bottom faces Dake for a shot at the tourney championship finals.  Winner of the finals meets JB in best of three.

This also allows clarity for the 86 keggers as well.

Neither Dake nor Cox get a seed.  They seed the rest.  Winner of topside 'semi' of the tournament gets a bye while Cox wrestles the winner of the bottom side 'semi' in the actual semis.

Easy to understand now(for me).

They set the bracket for 9 wrestlers.74kg will have 11 and if NCAA champ decides to go that's 12.Also Dake is basically the #1 seed in the bracket so he should get the 4 or 5 seed.

Edited by calot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, calot said:

They set the bracket for 9 wrestlers.74kg will have 11 and if NCAA champ decides to go that's 12.Also Dake is basically the #1 seed in the bracket so he should get the 4 or 5 seed.

No.  Dake isn't getting seeded.  He will face the winner of the 2/3 on the semis with the winner of the 1/4 getting a 'bye' while Dake VS 2/3 wrestle.

Been confirmed by USAW already that this is the method.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meaning of those who are qualified, this is likely how seeding looks:
 

Best of three finals: JB

Bye to bottom side semis: DAKE

1-IMart
2-Green
3-Massa
4-Lewis
5-Gantt
6-Wick
7-Valencia
8-Carr

IF Nolf qualifies at last chance, he will get slotted in between Green and Massa.  If Cenzo wins NCAAs I see him either just before Massa or just behind Massa(ahead of Lewis).  Whoever makes it through last chance aside for Nolf will likely sit in just above Carr.  Seeding Deakin would be interesting.  He has a case to be ahead of Green.  If Hidlay makes it, he could be as low as just above Carr.  Marineli probably slides in just after Valencia if he makes it in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Using this methodology as well for 86 keggers:

1-Taylor(IF he qualifies the weight)
2-Valencia
3-Martin
4-Ringer
5-Downey
6-Pfarr
7-Brooks

If Nickal drops, a BIG if at this point still, I see him getting the 2 or 3.

Meaning Taylor will face(as is) Ringer/Downey winner or Martin/Ringer winner in the top pre-semi, then the winner gets a bye while Cox faces the winner of Valencia and Martin/Nickal pre-semis in the bottom semis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also the 174lb Natty champ may enter at 86 or 74.

I still believe it is Hall, and I don't know if he would give either a go, even.

That being said, I could also see the 149lb champ giving 74 a go, for fits and shiggles.  Sasso and Lee both have the freestyle chops.  They would be drastically undersized, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Folks... after over a year... I finally understand how the brackets will be made.  I am stoked.  Understanding it was the battle.  Now I am happy with the 'bye to the semis' format.

They will be facing someone who just had a bye up top.  So that will be interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

No.  Dake isn't getting seeded.  He will face the winner of the 2/3 on the semis with the winner of the 1/4 getting a 'bye' while Dake VS 2/3 wrestle.

Been confirmed by USAW already that this is the method.

I understand he's not getting seeded and I know what the bracket looks like.My point is Dake is the guy in the bracket who's considered the best so should wrestle the winner of the 4&5 seeds in semis not the 2&3.I understand the bracket my issue is it's not fair.The 4 seed needs to pull 1 upset to make the finals.The 3 seed has to beat the 2 then beat Dake.If I'm the 3 seed I would want the 4

Edited by calot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Folks... after over a year... I finally understand how the brackets will be made.  I am stoked.  Understanding it was the battle.  Now I am happy with the 'bye to the semis' format.

They will be facing someone who just had a bye up top.  So that will be interesting.

They should wrestle the top 1/4 at the same time as the Dake semis so the rest time will be the same

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, calot said:

I understand he's not getting seeded and I know what the bracket looks like.My point is Dake is the guy in the bracket who's considered the best so should wrestle the winner of the 4&5 seeds in semis not the 2&3.I understand the bracket my issue is it's not fair.The 4 seed needs to pull 1 upset to make the finals.The 3 seed has to beat the 2 then beat Dake.If I'm the 3 seed I would want the 4

That is a fair point.  It isn't happening that way, though.  I am okay with this methodology.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Folks... after over a year... I finally understand how the brackets will be made.  I am stoked.  Understanding it was the battle.  Now I am happy with the 'bye to the semis' format.

They will be facing someone who just had a bye up top.  So that will be interesting.

Where has this "bye at the top" chatter come from recently? I think this is just a figment of the message board imagination. I would presume they will be drawn up like a 32/64 man bracket depending on the number of entrants, and the bottom quarter would just be a lot of BYE leading up to the semi's.

 

Edited by bnwtwg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I don't understand, why does Dake get a BYE to the semi-finals?  He was at 79kg two years in a row because he couldn't have beaten the no. 1 guy at 74kg.  Shouldn't Burroughs get a BYE (although he got bronze - two years in a row)?  I assume Cox also gets a BYE because he won at 92kg?

 

There is a clear difference between winning 74 and 79.  74 is much tougher.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...