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OTT brackets for 74kg and 86kg

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2 hours ago, sidakova4991 said:

One thing I don't understand, why does Dake get a BYE to the semi-finals?  He was at 79kg two years in a row because he couldn't have beaten the no. 1 guy at 74kg.  Shouldn't Burroughs get a BYE (although he got bronze - two years in a row)?  I assume Cox also gets a BYE because he won at 92kg?

 

There is a clear difference between winning 74 and 79.  74 is much tougher.  

Burroughs wins bronze and gets a seat in best of 3. Dake wins gold at non Olympic weight and he has to wrestle both days. (Not saying yay or nay to this format, just pointing out.) 

 

 

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Dake is not getting the number one seed. The number one seed, which would I-Mart, would have to wrestle extra matches. The advantage is he is being put into the semi and also on the bottom half where he will not wrestle the number one seed until the finals. The reason they did that is because he won a medal at a non Olympic weight. Other than the rest time it makes perfect sense. He gets the two versus three winner and one is on the other side assuming they all hold form.

As for 86kg, Taylor cannot be the number one seed as he was not a national team member last year. If Nickal goes 86 he will be number two because of his under-23 gold medal. That would then put Taylor at number 2 and on the same side as Cox.

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1 hour ago, ConnorsDad said:

Dake is not getting the number one seed. The number one seed, which would I-Mart, would have to wrestle extra matches. The advantage is he is being put into the semi and also on the bottom half where he will not wrestle the number one seed until the finals. The reason they did that is because he won a medal at a non Olympic weight. Other than the rest time it makes perfect sense. He gets the two versus three winner and one is on the other side assuming they all hold form.

As for 86kg, Taylor cannot be the number one seed as he was not a national team member last year. If Nickal goes 86 he will be number two because of his under-23 gold medal. That would then put Taylor at number 2 and on the same side as Cox.

Huh? Your 86 keggers doesn't make sense.

DT will qualify the weight and guarantees him the 1 seed, opposite Cox.

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4 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Huh? Your 86 keggers doesn't make sense.

DT will qualify the weight and guarantees him the 1 seed, opposite Cox.

The criteria says any 2019 world team member who qualifies the weight receives the number one seed. David was not a world team member in 2019.

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Just now, ConnorsDad said:

The criteria says any 2019 world team member who qualifies the weight receives the number one seed. David was not a world team member in 2019.

You need to read the Pan Am selection criteria again as well as seeding criteria.

DT is the rep for Pan Ams.

It states 2017 or 2018 world medalist at the weight as first criteria for Pan Ams.

Then seeding criteria states whoever qualifies the weight from the team. DT was on the team. He was our #2 on the ladder.

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8 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

You need to read the Pan Am selection criteria again as well as seeding criteria.

DT is the rep for Pan Ams.

It states 2017 or 2018 world medalist at the weight as first criteria for Pan Ams.

Then seeding criteria states whoever qualifies the weight from the team. DT was on the team. He was our #2 on the ladder.

That is correct. It says he has first choice to be the rep. But then Indie seeding criteria. It says the number one seed will go to whoever qualifies the wait as long as they world world team member in 2019. There is no ambiguity. He is not eligible to be the number one seed.

Seeding Criteria 
 
a. A 2019 World Championship team member who qualifies the weight for the 
2020 Olympic Games will automatically receive the #1 seed at the same weight category in which he qualified ...

David gets to be the one to qualify the weight, but he does not get the number one seed.

 

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11 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

That is correct. It says he has first choice to be the rep. But then Indie seeding criteria. It says the number one seed will go to whoever qualifies the wait as long as they world world team member in 2019. There is no ambiguity. He is not eligible to be the number one seed.

Seeding Criteria 
 
a. A 2019 World Championship team member who qualifies the weight for the 
2020 Olympic Games will automatically receive the #1 seed at the same weight category in which he qualified ...

David gets to be the one to qualify the weight, but he does not get the number one seed.

 

And who are you saying will be seeded over him?

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

And who are you saying will be seeded over him?

I'm not saying anybody. I'm just saying if he doesn't qualify the weight, he's not guaranteed to be the number one seed since he hasn't wrestled in a year. How is he going to be seeded above any of the guys who have wrestled each other and have results both domestically and internationally? Also part of the seeding criteria is any medalist from a uw-w scheduled event. It doesn't mention senior. So if Bo goes 86 dows that put him seeded ahead of David? The actual name of the under-23 is is under 23 senior World Championship. Again. I don't know. I'm just asking. If you're only counting from April of last year, how will Taylor be seeded above anybody who has been wrestling?

Edited by ConnorsDad
Forgive the typos. I'm voice texting.

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I will say that since he's wrestling in the Pan Am qualifier, I guess they could seed him number one since he will have wrestled in the calendar year so to speak. But, let's assume he never Wrestled a match until the Olympic trials. How would he be seeded anywhere but dead last? Just wondering I don't know.

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12 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

I'm not saying anybody. I'm just saying if he doesn't qualify the weight, he's not guaranteed to be the number one seed since he hasn't wrestled in a year. How is he going to be seeded above any of the guys who have wrestled each other and have results both domestically and internationally? Also part of the seeding criteria is any medalist from a uw-w scheduled event. It doesn't mention senior. So if Bo goes 86 dows that put him seeded ahead of David? The actual name of the under-23 is is under 23 senior World Championship. Again. I don't know. I'm just asking. If you're only counting from April of last year, how will Taylor be seeded above anybody who has been wrestling?

Oh I know I am presuming he will qualify the weight.

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6 hours ago, ConnorsDad said:

I'm not saying anybody. I'm just saying if he doesn't qualify the weight, he's not guaranteed to be the number one seed since he hasn't wrestled in a year. How is he going to be seeded above any of the guys who have wrestled each other and have results both domestically and internationally? Also part of the seeding criteria is any medalist from a uw-w scheduled event. It doesn't mention senior. So if Bo goes 86 dows that put him seeded ahead of David? The actual name of the under-23 is is under 23 senior World Championship. Again. I don't know. I'm just asking. If you're only counting from April of last year, how will Taylor be seeded above anybody who has been wrestling?

It doesn’t specify senior medalist over age group medalist because it’s a senior event, age group results won’t factor in.  Much like JV results would not factor into seeding a varsity post season tournament. 

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Back to 74kg, I don’t know if JB sitting out to the best of 3 is that big of a deal for Dake unless he makes it a big deal like he’s done in the past.

The first year that Gilman made the world team, he said he liked having to go through the bracket before facing Ramos(?) in the 2/3 bc it gave him an opportunity to “feel” real competition and get into a flow. I think Tank said something similar in 2016 or so. All this was under the old single day format though. 

Nonetheless, Dake should be able to easily get through the bracket from the semis and feel good for the 2/3 matches unless he whines about it and turns it into some huge disadvantage. JB, OTOH probably actually needs the byes physiologically but he hasn’t been competing much since Worlds and could maybe use a tune-up match or two to shake the rust off before 2/3s.

Edited by pamela

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2 hours ago, Lurker said:

Just to throw out an interesting hypothetical......maybe Taylor wants to be on the same side of the bracket as Cox as opposed to a 2 out of 3.  Taylor won the first on in their last two out of three....

This is another reason why I mentioned above that Zahid would be angling for the #1 seed on the Cox thread. Better to get to a best of 3, and worst case if he is the runner-up then there always the unfortunate possibility of injury (a la Colon/Garret). Of course none of this matters if Cox goes up to 97 but this banter is what helps fill the time between now and April

 

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15 hours ago, newuser69 said:

Wouldn't this make more sense if we just gave current World Champions a bye to the Tourney Finals (provided you come from a non-olympic weight)? 

I don't see why they chose to make this so convoluted.

How could they do this? Using 74 as an example, Dake and JB would just go directly to the best of 3. So no one else deserves to compete? Everyone else would simply be competing for the 3rd spot on the national team? I think this is the fairest method to reward those gold medals at what was considered to be weaker weights (79 and 92)

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12 minutes ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

How could they do this? Using 74 as an example, Dake and JB would just go directly to the best of 3. So no one else deserves to compete? Everyone else would simply be competing for the 3rd spot on the national team? I think this is the fairest method to reward those gold medals at what was considered to be weaker weights (79 and 92)

As in Dake has to wrestle the tournament winner. Then the winner of that match wrestles JB. Seems more than fair.

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On 2/4/2020 at 7:41 PM, nhs67 said:

I think the big confusion between the two us that with 74 keggers, Dake is the presumed 1 seed, yet according to the criteria will still sit with a bye to the trials tournament semis, on the bottom half of that bracket.  He will have ti win the semis then the trials tournament finals to make the best of three the following day against JB.

Taylor will likely qualify the weight and will be sitting at the 1 seed due to that. So Cox then gets the 2 seed of the trials tournament(meaning only one win for him to get to the best of three finals(against whoever comes out of the top half). It is looking to me like Zahid as the three seed.

So the brackets are entirely screwy and difficult to understand. Askren isn't an idiot. He is rather smart and has been looking at and understanding brackets for nearly 40 years. This is just perplexing.

Cox would not get #2 seed or any seed for that matter, he would sit in the semis. 

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On 2/6/2020 at 8:37 PM, ConnorsDad said:

Dake is not getting the number one seed. The number one seed, which would I-Mart, would have to wrestle extra matches. The advantage is he is being put into the semi and also on the bottom half where he will not wrestle the number one seed until the finals. The reason they did that is because he won a medal at a non Olympic weight. Other than the rest time it makes perfect sense. He gets the two versus three winner and one is on the other side assuming they all hold form.

As for 86kg, Taylor cannot be the number one seed as he was not a national team member last year. If Nickal goes 86 he will be number two because of his under-23 gold medal. That would then put Taylor at number 2 and on the same side as Cox.

Taylor most certainly was a National Team member last year...3rd. If he qualifies the weight, he gets the #1 seed.

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On 2/7/2020 at 12:30 PM, LJB said:

the better wrestler always wins... anybody whining about the mini tourney (wrestler or "fan") is doing just that... whining...

Seeds don't matter...got to beat the best to earn the spot.

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