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MonagFam

Is there any path for US Freestyle/GR wrestlers that does not go through the NCAA?

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7 minutes ago, MonagFam said:

I am so new to really following either.  I don't necessarily support one style over another at this point.  I get to see HS folkstyle live and I feel it's pretty exciting because I feel like someone is always working for a pin or they are looking to tech fall (so there are lots of takedowns and not as much riding time, which I don't think anyone gets a point for like in college?).  I absolutely have issues with some collegiate matches where it doesn't feel this way if the focus is getting the riding point.  That said, I can be disappointed in freestyle when someone gets turned a bunch (though I don't feel their back was truly exposed) and it's over before it started.

I definitely have a lot to learn though, which is why I have so many questions!  :)    

the vast majority of HS wrestling is truly awful... mostly teams just trying to fill rosters and not having much success... anyone who has any real real wrestling acumen will go through the season smashing poor kids and wont be challenged till their regionals/district/states etc...

and before someone comes in trying to talk about PA wrestling, i was attempted to watch PA dual states tonight... awful... just awful...

and while i can understand someone's complaint about a real style match being over so quick, my retort is always the same...

don't want to get laced up or gutted?

don't let it happen...

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24 minutes ago, LJB said:

the vast majority of HS wrestling is truly awful... mostly teams just trying to fill rosters and not having much success... anyone who has any real real wrestling acumen will go through the season smashing poor kids and wont be challenged till their regionals/district/states etc...

and before someone comes in trying to talk about PA wrestling, i was attempted to watch PA dual states tonight... awful... just awful...

and while i can understand someone's complaint about a real style match being over so quick, my retort is always the same...

don't want to get laced up or gutted?

don't let it happen...

I guess I don't watch it expecting the highest level.  I watch as a parent first.  My son didn't start wrestling until this year, so it's just fun watching him and his friends/teammates compete.

I don't really have a dog in this fight.  I asked in another thread how NCAA fans would handle it if hypothetically they required freestyle rules effective next season.  I was surprised when someone said they would rather watch BJJ and Judo, which I found shocking as I don't love the gi-based grappling as much and Judo really doesn't allow for much ground work in the competitions I have watched.  I wonder if you might feel the same way though if Freestyle went to Folkstyle?

I totally get the "don't let it happen" argument,  but I think it could be applied to Folkstyle as well.  If you don't want to get ridden, do your best to get up. 

Don't take this as some ultimate defense of it.  I watched some truly great freestyle matches at that recent tournament in Russia.  

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25 minutes ago, MonagFam said:

I guess I don't watch it expecting the highest level.  I watch as a parent first.  My son didn't start wrestling until this year, so it's just fun watching him and his friends/teammates compete.

I don't really have a dog in this fight.  I asked in another thread how NCAA fans would handle it if hypothetically they required freestyle rules effective next season.  I was surprised when someone said they would rather watch BJJ and Judo, which I found shocking as I don't love the gi-based grappling as much and Judo really doesn't allow for much ground work in the competitions I have watched.  I wonder if you might feel the same way though if Freestyle went to Folkstyle?

I totally get the "don't let it happen" argument,  but I think it could be applied to Folkstyle as well.  If you don't want to get ridden, do your best to get up. 

Don't take this as some ultimate defense of it.  I watched some truly great freestyle matches at that recent tournament in Russia.  

to be perfectly honest, i am a bit jaded as a parent and realize i am bit of an a$$hole about HS wrestling... it comes from traveling all over the country for years and hitting all the biggest tourneys where the competition is as high as we could get and then the letdown of months and months of an instate folk season... all to be forced to wrestle a style the kids hated...

 

 

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31 minutes ago, LJB said:

to be perfectly honest, i am a bit jaded as a parent and realize i am bit of an a$$hole about HS wrestling... it comes from traveling all over the country for years and hitting all the biggest tourneys where the competition is as high as we could get and then the letdown of months and months of an instate folk season... all to be forced to wrestle a style the kids hated...

 

 

I can imagine it's a lot different when you wrestle at such a high level.

Is it your experience that kids prefer freestyle if they learn it since you mentioned them being forced to do a style they hated?

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8 hours ago, LJB said:

surely you have been around for one of my patented anti-stallfest rants...

this part of the season i am so sick of watching "wrestlers" back up out of bounds... "wrestle" from 3 feet away... pick bottom... it makes me sick...

still have over a month before people start getting tossed on their domes... seems like an eternity...

Yes I have 

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LJB, You are an elitist.  The purpose of high school sports in general is for young people to have a positive and active activity to participate in, to learn life skills and sportsmanship. Look at almost any other sport and it is the same way.  The local HS teams for the most part are made up of participants, kids who want to be a part of something, kids who want to be with their friends.  In the grand scheme of things, that is more important.   The club or traveling team is made up of the top level guys.  That is why a large number of premier soccer players will not participate on HS teams.  They know that HS soccer is not at their level. Instead of being the "a$$hole" travel to your big tourneys for your kids, step back and allow the local sports to have the massive impact on society that they do.  And just because you travel all over and witness high level wrestling doesn't mean you have any idea what is like to be one of those kids filling a spot on their high school team.  There are many more participants filling a spot than champions in this world and we are better off because of the participants and they are better of for participating. If a HS track team has 100 members, there three times as many on the JV team than varsity.  That is a good thing.  As a HS coach, it is quite common to have a conversation with one of my former wrestlers who would be considered a "participant" who looks back at their days on the mat as a turning point in their life. Sometimes it is a wrestler who won one, two, maybe three matches in their career.  But, the impact the sport had on their life is immeasurable. 

 

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4 minutes ago, wrestlingshoe said:

LJB, You are an elitist.  The purpose of high school sports in general is for young people to have a positive and active activity to participate in, to learn life skills and sportsmanship. Look at almost any other sport and it is the same way.  The local HS teams for the most part are made up of participants, kids who want to be a part of something, kids who want to be with their friends.  In the grand scheme of things, that is more important.   The club or traveling team is made up of the top level guys.  That is why a large number of premier soccer players will not participate on HS teams.  They know that HS soccer is not at their level. Instead of being the "a$$hole" travel to your big tourneys for your kids, step back and allow the local sports to have the massive impact on society that they do.  And just because you travel all over and witness high level wrestling doesn't mean you have any idea what is like to be one of those kids filling a spot on their high school team.  There are many more participants filling a spot than champions in this world and we are better off because of the participants and they are better of for participating. If a HS track team has 100 members, there three times as many on the JV team than varsity.  That is a good thing.  As a HS coach, it is quite common to have a conversation with one of my former wrestlers who would be considered a "participant" who looks back at their days on the mat as a turning point in their life. Sometimes it is a wrestler who won one, two, maybe three matches in their career.  But, the impact the sport had on their life is immeasurable. 

 

i don't disagree with any of this... 

and  truth be told, my hatred of folk also tints what i am watching...

and i really do understand that the problem lies with me and not the sport... i have to check myself sometimes when watching a typical HS dual...

 

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and let me add... i have always preached to my kids that just stepping on the mat is honorable and never disrespect any of their opponents... because we have been on both sides of that equation...

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13 hours ago, LJB said:

and let me add... i have always preached to my kids that just stepping on the mat is honorable and never disrespect any of their opponents... because we have been on both sides of that equation...

I guess I'm glad you realize it, but the fact is that hasn't stopped you from tainting the board with negative rhetoric. Not that I personally have anything against you, but all the same, it is because of the negative comments like yours that keep me from posting very often. We need to celebrate and support our sport in an amongst our banter on the board.

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7 hours ago, wrestlingshoe said:

I guess I'm glad you realize it, but the fact is that hasn't stopped you from tainting the board with negative rhetoric. Not that I personally have anything against you, but all the same, it is because of the negative comments like yours that keep me from posting very often. We need to celebrate and support our sport in an amongst our banter on the board.

i dislike folk... it rewards not wrestling... that is not being negative so much as an honest assement of the lame rule set...

you don't like that?

can't help you with it...

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4 hours ago, LJB said:

i dislike folk... it rewards not wrestling... that is not being negative so much as an honest assement of the lame rule set...

you don't like that?

can't help you with it...

That is not the rhetoric you spew. You talk about how awful most local HS wrestling is.  I am a freestyler at heart. That is my favorite style. But, folkstyle offers wrestling a path through public schools that freestyle never will. Would I like some rule changes in folk, yes. But, I will pump up HS wtestling and it's benefits because it is by far one of the best places for young people to learn and grow. 

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7 hours ago, wrestlingshoe said:

That is not the rhetoric you spew. You talk about how awful most local HS wrestling is.  I am a freestyler at heart. That is my favorite style. But, folkstyle offers wrestling a path through public schools that freestyle never will. Would I like some rule changes in folk, yes. But, I will pump up HS wtestling and it's benefits because it is by far one of the best places for young people to learn and grow. 

HS wrestling is mostly awful... the coaching is mostly awful... look at all the forfeits because they can’t field full teams much less backups... 

now you can call that rhetoric and you can manufacture all the outrage you desire, but, that is the truth...

does that denigrate the kids trying to wrestle?

no it does not...

you want to be offended... that is it... and I am not bothered one way or the other

 

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13 minutes ago, LJB said:

HS wrestling is mostly awful... the coaching is mostly awful... look at all the forfeits because they can’t field full teams much less backups... 

now you can call that rhetoric and you can manufacture all the outrage you desire, but, that is the truth...

does that denigrate the kids trying to wrestle?

no it does not...

you want to be offended... that is it... and I am not bothered one way or the other

 

I'm assuming that if you saw two 6 year olds wrestling around you would say it is awful.  I'm assuming if you saw two beginning middle school wrestlers going at it you would say the same. And, comparatively, you would probably be right.  But, at the same time, you are denigrating the sport and the majority of people who participate in it.  Without the thousands of "awful" wrestlers, wrestling in American schools would become extinct. I have been involved in wrestling for over 40 years as a competitor and coach and know the value of wrestling at all levels.  The more we support this gret sport the better off our sport is. 

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4 minutes ago, wrestlingshoe said:

I'm assuming that if you saw two 6 year olds wrestling around you would say it is awful.  I'm assuming if you saw two beginning middle school wrestlers going at it you would say the same. And, comparatively, you would probably be right.  But, at the same time, you are denigrating the sport and the majority of people who participate in it.  Without the thousands of "awful" wrestlers, wrestling in American schools would become extinct. I have been involved in wrestling for over 40 years as a competitor and coach and know the value of wrestling at all levels.  The more we support this gret sport the better off our sport is. 

Pretending something is something that it is not, is not support... 

again, you can get as offended as you want... seems silly, but, to each their own...

i spent all day at girls HS state to support a friend... 

you know what?

the wrestling was awful... but they had full brackets and a place to compete and that is awesome... but I’m not going to lie about what was happening on the mat in 95% of the matches

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9 minutes ago, LJB said:

Pretending something is something that it is not, is not support... 

again, you can get as offended as you want... seems silly, but, to each their own...

i spent all day at girls HS state to support a friend... 

you know what?

the wrestling was awful... but they had full brackets and a place to compete and that is awesome... but I’m not going to lie about what was happening on the mat in 95% of the matches

I'm sure you make the people around you feel really good.  

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4 minutes ago, wrestlingshoe said:

I'm sure you make the people around you feel really good.  

I do not feel the need to lie to people to spare them their precious feelings... most are not secure enough in their own skin to accept it... I’m ok with that...

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49 minutes ago, wrestlingshoe said:

It's not lying. It's tact.

who says i am not tactful?

listen, obviously you get your feelings bruised easily... as a man, i just don't get that... but, i also learned a long time ago that i can't help people like you and i refuse to concern myself about it... 

when you lie to someone just because you are not man enough to tell them the truth, that does not help anyone... it only weakens everyone involved...

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8 hours ago, LJB said:

who says i am not tactful?

listen, obviously you get your feelings bruised easily... as a man, i just don't get that... but, i also learned a long time ago that i can't help people like you and i refuse to concern myself about it... 

when you lie to someone just because you are not man enough to tell them the truth, that does not help anyone... it only weakens everyone involved...

 

9 hours ago, LJB said:

I do not feel the need to lie to people to spare them their precious feelings... most are not secure enough in their own skin to accept it... I’m ok with that...

This coming from what I consider to be the biggest sensitive Sally on these boards 

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2 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

 

This coming from what I consider to be the biggest sensitive Sally on these boards 

again, your input into every discussion is always so insightful and full of value...

don't you go changing, flapjack...

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1 minute ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

I guess I struck another nerve with you, Sally 

just another quality post chock of wrestling knowledge...

keep swinging for the fences, biscuit flip...

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LJB, I mostly find your straightforward thoughts harmless and good contributions to the discussion. I agree with your comments most of the time. But what people who say, "I'm just not afraid to tell the truth and others are" are really saying is, "I care more about my message landing flush than I do about giving any respect cues to the people receiving it."   You're confusing honesty with lack of desire to show respect in culturally normal ways. It's possible to be very honest and also to show respect. 

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