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Jimmy Cinnabon

Taking bets about PSU vs Wisconsin tonight

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What if he pays off the bets in cinnamon buns to the RTCs and everyone ends up missing weight?

 

On another note, is there any possibility that RBY could have scored defensive backs on Gross during the spladle? I thought that was an officiating emphasis thing since the Dean Heil rule. He was obviously trying to get the heck out of that position, but he was also scooting up and upright while Gross had himself tilted pretty far back. It was quick so maybe not, but I was wondering if defensive nearfall points would have been possible in that situation.

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Just now, Mphillips said:

Did he lose money over the Bucks?

 

No.  In a thread Jimmy said he thought Wisconsin and Ohio St would defeat Penn St. I think the thread is still up.  After he made the thread I mailed him and said I would bet him that Penn St. defeats him and I would bet him separately that Lee defeats Pletcher.   Jimmy said he doesn't gamble for money, but for donations to RTC's.  I only gamble to Christian causes.  Therefore, if Jimmy won I would pay to NLWC. If I won, Jimmy would make donation to Gideons.  Seemed fair.  I mean, he did think Ohio State would win.  We had it all lined up.  But then he never finalized it. 

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1 minute ago, pamela said:

What if he pays off the bets in cinnamon buns to the RTCs and everyone ends up missing weight?

 

On another note, is there any possibility that RBY could have scored defensive backs on Gross during the spladle? I thought that was an officiating emphasis thing since the Dean Heil rule. He was obviously trying to get the heck out of that position, but he was also scooting up and upright while Gross had himself tilted pretty far back. It was quick so maybe not, but I was wondering if defensive nearfall points would have been possible in that situation.

Well, if I won the money was to go to the Gideons.  I guess he could donate cinabuns to gideon organizations. 

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2 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

No.  In a thread Jimmy said he thought Wisconsin and Ohio St would defeat Penn St. I think the thread is still up.  After he made the thread I mailed him and said I would bet him that Penn St. defeats him and I would bet him separately that Lee defeats Pletcher.   Jimmy said he doesn't gamble for money, but for donations to RTC's.  I only gamble to Christian causes.  Therefore, if Jimmy won I would pay to NLWC. If I won, Jimmy would make donation to Gideons.  Seemed fair.  I mean, he did think Ohio State would win.  We had it all lined up.  But then he never finalized it. 

So there was no good ol' fashion,  "Christian" bets placed?

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4 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

So there was no good ol' fashion,  "Christian" bets placed?

I don't consider it really a bet.  I would happily give the Gideons 50 bucks.  Same with NLWC.  I'd rather be the reason Jimmy gives a litte more so :) 

If I actually was betting food off my table or my kids inheritance, that would be different issue. 

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12 hours ago, Marcus Cisero said:

I’ve decided 3 names are not enough for RBY, so I’m awarding him a 4th one.

Roman “Gladiator” Bravo Young because the guy has the heart of a warrior.

A match between Young and Rivera would be golden!

You do realize that half of the gladiators lost in every contest, right? And a lot of them died (losers and winners).

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27 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

It is the darnest thing. He thought Ohio State was going to win.  But then he hasn't put his money where his mouth is.  

I lost a $200 bet last summer to him and he won’t give me his name and address to send the check...

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1 minute ago, AHamilton said:

Too much truth.  Dudes died.

Not nearly as many as one would think.

Those gladiators were investments for people.  They were trained and taken care of, fed well and had the best physicians.  They had fans and were rock stars.  It didn't make sense to kill their , 'money makers.'  It's bad business.  

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21 minutes ago, HokieHWT said:

I lost a $200 bet last summer to him and he won’t give me his name and address to send the check...

I still halfway think cinnamon is a troll account from another poster on this board and he doesn’t want to out himself.

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3 minutes ago, HokieHWT said:

Hence why I made the bet and how I will pay it. He plays checkers, I play chess 

He's probably going to post a link to proof of payment and when you click on the link he captures all of your data. You play chess, he plays cyber chess on steroids. That whole Cinnabon schtick is just to lure you in with the innocent pastry lovin screen name. 

Edited by TBar1977

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19 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Not nearly as many as one would think.

Those gladiators were investments for people.  They were trained and taken care of, fed well and had the best physicians.  They had fans and were rock stars.  It didn't make sense to kill their , 'money makers.'  It's bad business.  

Unless they lost. sparky.

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23 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Not nearly as many as one would think.

Those gladiators were investments for people.  They were trained and taken care of, fed well and had the best physicians.  They had fans and were rock stars.  It didn't make sense to kill their , 'money makers.'  It's bad business.  

Actually most did die. Archeologists and historians in Rome have been able to determine that most died at the precise moment they were about to be cradled to their back. 

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25 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Those gladiators were investments for people.  They were trained and taken care of, fed well and had the best physicians.  They had fans and were rock stars.  

Yep, they were living the good life, right up till there weren't. 

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2 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Too many movies.

Victory and defeat

See also: Pollice verso

A match was won by the gladiator who overcame his opponent, or killed him outright. Victors received the palm branch and an award from the editor. An outstanding fighter might receive a laurel crown and money from an appreciative crowd but for anyone originally condemned ad ludum the greatest reward was manumission (emancipation), symbolised by the gift of a wooden training sword or staff (rudis) from the editor. Martial describes a match between Priscus and Verus, who fought so evenly and bravely for so long that when both acknowledged defeat at the same instant, Titus awarded victory and a rudis to each.[97] Flamma was awarded the rudis four times, but chose to remain a gladiator. His gravestone in Sicily includes his record: "Flamma, secutor, lived 30 years, fought 34 times, won 21 times, fought to a draw 9 times, defeated 4 times, a Syrian by nationality. Delicatus made this for his deserving comrade-in-arms."[98]

A gladiator could acknowledge defeat by raising a finger (ad digitum), in appeal to the referee to stop the combat and refer to the editor, whose decision would usually rest on the crowd's response.[99] In the earliest munera, death was considered a righteous penalty for defeat; later, those who fought well might be granted remission at the whim of the crowd or the editor. During the Imperial era, matches advertised as sine missione (without remission from the sentence of death) suggest that missio (the sparing of a defeated gladiator's life) had become common practice. The contract between editor and his lanista could include compensation for unexpected deaths;[100] this could be "some fifty times higher than the lease price" of the gladiator.[101]

Under Augustus' rule, the demand for gladiators began to exceed supply, and matches sine missione were officially banned; an economical, pragmatic development that happened to match popular notions of "natural justice". When Caligula and Claudius refused to spare defeated but popular fighters, their own popularity suffered. In general, gladiators who fought well were likely to survive.[102] At a Pompeian match between chariot-fighters, Publius Ostorius, with previous 51 wins to his credit, was granted missio after losing to Scylax, with 26 victories.[103] By common custom, the spectators decided whether or not a losing gladiator should be spared, and chose the winner in the rare event of a standing tie.[104] Even more rarely, perhaps uniquely, one stalemate ended in the killing of one gladiator by the editor himself.[105][106] In any event, the final decision of death or life belonged to the editor, who signalled his choice with a gesture described by Roman sources as pollice verso meaning "with a turned thumb"; a description too imprecise for reconstruction of the gesture or its symbolism. Whether victorious or defeated, a gladiator was bound by oath to accept or implement his editor's decision, "the victor being nothing but the instrument of his [editor's] will."[106] Not all editors chose to go with the crowd, and not all those condemned to death for putting on a poor show chose to submit:

Once a band of five retiarii in tunics, matched against the same number of secutores, yielded without a struggle; but when their death was ordered, one of them caught up his trident and slew all the victors. Caligula bewailed this in a public proclamation as a most cruel murder.[107]

Death and disposal

A gladiator who was refused missio was despatched by his opponent. To die well, a gladiator should never ask for mercy, nor cry out.[108] A "good death" redeemed the gladiator from the dishonourable weakness and passivity of defeat, and provided a noble example to those who watched:[109]

For death, when it stands near us, gives even to inexperienced men the courage not to seek to avoid the inevitable. So the gladiator, no matter how faint-hearted he has been throughout the fight, offers his throat to his opponent and directs the wavering blade to the vital spot. (Seneca. Epistles, 30.8)

Some mosaics show defeated gladiators kneeling in preparation for the moment of death. Seneca's "vital spot" seems to have meant the neck.[110] Gladiator remains from Ephesus confirm this.[111]

220px-GladiatorFeldflasche.jpg
 
A flask depicting the final phase of the fight between a murmillo (winning) and a thraex

The body of a gladiator who had died well was placed on a couch of Libitina and removed with dignity to the arena morgue, where the corpse was stripped of armour, and probably had its throat cut to prove that dead was dead. The Christian author Tertullian, commenting on ludi meridiani in Roman Carthage during the peak era of the games, describes a more humiliating method of removal. One arena official, dressed as the "brother of Jove", Dis Pater (god of the underworld) strikes the corpse with a mallet. Another, dressed as Mercury, tests for life-signs with a heated "wand"; once confirmed as dead, the body is dragged from the arena.[112]

Whether these victims were gladiators or noxii is unknown. Modern pathological examination confirms the probably fatal use of a mallet on some, but not all the gladiator skulls found in a gladiators' cemetery.[113] Kyle (1998) proposes that gladiators who disgraced themselves might have been subjected to the same indignities as noxii, denied the relative mercies of a quick death and dragged from the arena as carrion. Whether the corpse of such a gladiator could be redeemed from further ignominy by friends or familia is not known.[114]

The bodies of noxii, and possibly some damnati, were thrown into rivers or dumped unburied;[115] Denial of funeral rites and memorial condemned the shade (manes) of the deceased to restless wandering upon the earth as a dreadful larva or lemur.[116] Ordinary citizens, slaves and freedmen were usually buried beyond the town or city limits, to avoid the ritual and physical pollution of the living; professional gladiators had their own, separate cemeteries. The taint of infamia was perpetual.[117]

Remembrance and epitaphs

Gladiators could subscribe to a union (collegia), which ensured their proper burial, and sometimes a pension or compensation for wives and children. Otherwise, the gladiator's familia, which included his lanista, comrades and blood-kin, might fund his funeral and memorial costs, and use the memorial to assert their moral reputation as responsible, respectful colleagues or family members. Some monuments record the gladiator's career in some detail, including the number of appearances, victories  —  sometimes represented by an engraved crown or wreath  —  defeats, career duration, and age at death. Some include the gladiator's type, in words or direct representation: for example, the memorial of a retiarius at Verona included an engraved trident and sword.[118][119] A wealthy editor might commission artwork to celebrate a particularly successful or memorable show, and include named portraits of winners and losers in action; the Borghese Gladiator Mosaic is a notable example. According to Cassius Dio, the emperor Caracalla gave the gladiator Bato a magnificent memorial and State funeral;[89] more typical are the simple gladiator tombs of the Eastern Roman Empire, whose brief inscriptions include the following:

"The familia set this up in memory of Saturnilos."
"For Nikepharos, son of Synetos, Lakedaimonian, and for Narcissus the secutor. Titus Flavius Satyrus set up this monument in his memory from his own money."
"For Hermes. Paitraeites with his cell-mates set this up in memory".[120]

Very little evidence survives of the religious beliefs of gladiators as a class, or their expectations of an afterlife. Modern scholarship offers little support for the once-prevalent notion that gladiators, venatores and bestiarii were personally or professionally dedicated to the cult of the Graeco-Roman goddess Nemesis. Rather, she seems to have represented a kind of "Imperial Fortuna" who dispensed Imperial retribution on the one hand, and Imperially subsidised gifts on the other – including the munera. One gladiator's tomb dedication clearly states that her decisions are not to be trusted.[121] Many gladiator epitaphs claim Nemesis, fate, deception or treachery as the instrument of their death, never the superior skills of the flesh-and-blood adversary who defeated and killed them. Having no personal responsibility for his own defeat and death, the losing gladiator remains the better man, worth avenging.[122]

"I, Victor, left-handed, lie here, but my homeland was in Thessalonica. Doom killed me, not the liar Pinnas. No longer let him boast. I had a fellow gladiator, Polyneikes, who killed Pinnas and avenged me. Claudius Thallus set up this memorial from what I left behind as a legacy."[123]

Life expectancy

A gladiator might expect to fight in two or three munera annually, and an unknown number would have died in their first match. Few gladiators survived more than 10 contests, though one survived an extraordinary 150 bouts;[124] and another died at 90 years of age, presumably long after retirement.[125] A natural death following retirement is also likely for three individuals who died at 38, 45, and 48 years respectively.[118] George Ville, using evidence from 1st century gladiator headstones, calculated an average age at death of 27, and mortality "among all who entered the arena" at 19/100.[126] Marcus Junkelmann disputes Ville's calculation for average age at death; the majority would have received no headstone, and would have died early in their careers, at 18–25 years of age.[127] Between the early and later Imperial periods the risk of death for defeated gladiators rose from 1/5 to 1/4, perhaps because missio was granted less often.[126] Hopkins and Beard tentatively estimate a total of 400 arenas throughout the Roman Empire at its greatest extent, with a combined total of 8,000 deaths per annum from executions, combats and accidents.[128]

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3 hours ago, ionel said:

Definitely a pin.  Moran also beat Lee.  You have to watch the match backward in slow motion but check it out, it's pretty obvious.  ;_;

just pointing out that anyone can see anything... 

 

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2 hours ago, AHamilton said:

 

Life expectancy

 Few gladiators survived more than 10 contests, though one survived an extraordinary 150 bouts;[124] and another died at 90 years of age, presumably long after retirement.[125] 

 

2 hours ago, WillieBoy said:

Kirk Douglas has died - you may be right.

Need to update above, Kirk Douglas was 103.  ;)

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