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Jimmy Cinnabon

Taking bets about PSU vs Wisconsin tonight

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48 minutes ago, GockeS said:

i looked earlier at the video... and at around 2:06 its pretty clear

Youtube has a settings option to slow down the playback speed.  I took multiple screenshots per second and call out when the ref did versus did not count.  How do you perceive this?

2:05 – About to roll RBY over

2-05

Still 2:05 | The roll over is occurring.

2-05b.jpg

2:06 | Ref immediately counts to one as the roll over occurs.  Ref is trying to get closer to the action.  RBY’s right blade is on top of Seth.  Left blade is hard to see.

2-06.jpg

Still 2:06 | RBY’s right blade is on top of Seth.  Left blade is high off the mat.

2-06b.jpg

2:07 | Ref counts to two.  RBY’s right blade is still on top of Seth.  Left blade is still high off the mat.

2-07

2:08 – Ref shaking head ‘No’.  Nothing has changed and the ref stops counting.  It looks like RBY’s left blade is close to touching the mat.  Right blade is high off the mat.

2-08.jpg

Still 2:08 | Ref is still shaking his head “no”.  If that left blade was close to the mat, it was only for the previous 0.5 seconds as now it is high off the mat. Right blade is still on Seth’s chest.

2-08b.jpg

2:09 | Ref counts to one again.  The darkness makes it look like RBY is flat on his back but it is actually Seth that is flat on his back.  If you follow RBY's left arm, you can see his blade is still high and his right blade is still on Seth.

2-09.jpg

Still 2:09 | RBY’s blades are still high off the mat.

2-09b.jpg

2:10 | Ref counts to 2.  Look at how high RBY’s blades are off the mat.  He is on top of Seth.  I added a white line so you can better see the angle in which RBY's body has been up and off the mat the entire time.

2-10.jpg

2:11 | Ref stops counting again.  RBY pops his head out and gets the reversal soon thereafter.

 

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HIf you’re gonna take all that time, why not brighten the pictures up?  You can’t really see the bottom of the scapula.   Although in the bottom picture, for one your line looks wrong to me unless RBY has a really weird shaped back since you can kinda see the faint white line of his singlet to the left but your line appears to cuts off his back.  Oh and again, there’s no way to tell if your line is 4” off the mat anyway.

I get the argument but there’s no way you can be so definitive about it.  Basically it could have been anywhere from 0-4 points, so at least it being 2 was the middle ground (not saying that was the ref’s thinking).

 

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1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

HIf you’re gonna take all that time, why not brighten the pictures up?  You can’t really see the bottom of the scapula.   Although in the bottom picture, for one your line looks wrong to me unless RBY has a really weird shaped back since you can kinda see the faint white line of his singlet to the left but your line appears to cuts off his back.  Oh and again, there’s no way to tell if your line is 4” off the mat anyway.

Done.  For a person standing upright, the bottom of their scapula is roughly positioned at the same height as the bottom of the pec.  I marked roughly where RBY's scapula is with a yellow line.  The white line outlines RBY's left side.  The yellow line is higher than SG's chest and higher than the refs left-hand wristband.  If the ref is an average sized man, we are looking at 7+ inches off the mat.  The ref is over there like "nope, not yet, yes, no."  SG needs to get those shoulders flat on the mat.  Come on now, don't do that to a ref, that's freaking rude.

2-10-light.jpg

2-10-light-markedup.jpg

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10 hours ago, Cementmixer103 said:

He's sitting back, laughing!

 

Screenshot_2020-02-11-23-09-11.png

Right. He's not supposed to return to the forum per his bet with me until he provides proof of payment, which he's already broken.  At least he has had the honor to not post.  

Probably waiting for pay day, which is a little sad.  In the meantime he can post on his other accounts.  

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On 2/8/2020 at 2:51 PM, pamela said:

On another note, is there any possibility that RBY could have scored defensive backs on Gross during the spladle? I thought that was an officiating emphasis thing since the Dean Heil rule. He was obviously trying to get the heck out of that position, but he was also scooting up and upright while Gross had himself tilted pretty far back. It was quick so maybe not, but I was wondering if defensive nearfall points would have been possible in that situation.

 

@jross could the second set of swipes have been bc Gross was in a danger position? Before getting out of the spladle, RBY was technically sitting up on top of Gross and he was leaning far back with his shoulders going down towards the mat. I was wondering if maybe it was a Dean Heil defensive scoring rule thing.

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22 hours ago, jross said:

Done.  For a person standing upright, the bottom of their scapula is roughly positioned at the same height as the bottom of the pec.  I marked roughly where RBY's scapula is with a yellow line.  The white line outlines RBY's left side.  The yellow line is higher than SG's chest and higher than the refs left-hand wristband.  If the ref is an average sized man, we are looking at 7+ inches off the mat.  The ref is over there like "nope, not yet, yes, no."  SG needs to get those shoulders flat on the mat.  Come on now, don't do that to a ref, that's freaking rude.

2-10-light.jpg

2-10-light-markedup.jpg

Can you do it for the bottom picture from your previous post?

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1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Can you do it for the bottom picture from your previous post?

Done. 

  • White: straight line represents the direction of RBY's back.  The boomerang white line is a mistake from the original photo that could not be removed.
  • Yellow: line across the chest is at the top of the RBY's singlet letters, which is the bottom of the pecs.  The horizontal yellow line starts from the lowest part of the singlet letters.
  • Blue: line across chest is the bottom of the scapula.  The horizontal line starts from the lowest part of the left scap. 

RBY's right arm is over SGs hip.  RBY's right scap is on top of SG and cannot be touching the mat.  The left scapula is also off the mat.

 

blah.jpg

cmp.jpg

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22 hours ago, pamela said:

@jross could the second set of swipes have been bc Gross was in a danger position? Before getting out of the spladle, RBY was technically sitting up on top of Gross and he was leaning far back with his shoulders going down towards the mat. I was wondering if maybe it was a Dean Heil defensive scoring rule thing.

Both sets of swipes were in favor of Seth trying to get a 4s NF.  I believe the danger position is for scoring a neutral danger zone takedown.  They were no longer in neutral when Seth was given the TD for the spladle.  Seth was in control of RBY and not in danger of giving back points to RBY.  Seth was in danger of a defensive pin.  

RULE 4 - Scoring Meets and Matches

  • Section 2 - Takedowns
    • Art. 3. Neutral Danger Zone Takedown. When in the neutral position, the referee shall announce a neutral danger signal (NDS) anytime a wrestler exposes their shoulders to the mat at any angle less than 90 degrees (neutral danger zone).  The danger zone utilizes near fall criteria outlined in Rule 4.5.1, but replaces 45 degrees with any angle less than 90 degrees. The NDS announcement shall occur anytime a wrestler is voluntarily or involuntarily in the neutral danger zone, beyond reaction time, and will continue until the wrestler is out of the danger zone or a takedown is awarded.
    • Art. 4. Neutral Danger Signal. The NDS is a verbal announcement of the word "danger," followed by a verbal three count. Whenever possible, the referee also should include a visual indication of the count. If the referee reaches the third count and the wrestler is still in the danger zone, the opposing wrestler is awarded a takedown.
  • Section 5 - Near Fall
    • Art. 1. Near Fall Criteria. A near fall is a position in which the offensive wrestler has the opponent in a controlled pinning situation in which any one of the following three criteria are met:
      • a. The defensive wrestler is held in a high bridge or on both elbows
      • b. Any part of one shoulder or scapula, or the head is touching the mat and the other shoulder or scapula is held at an angle of 45 degrees or less to the mat
      • c. Any part of both shoulders or both scapulae are held within four inches of the mat.

RULE 2 - Definitions of wrestling terms 

  • Section 3. Determining the Winner
    • Art. 1. Fall. A fall occurs when any part of both shoulders or part of both scapulae of either wrestler is held in contact with the mat for one second. The one second count (one-thousand-one) shall be a silent count by the referee and shall start only after the referee is in position to observe that a fall is imminent.

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On 2/13/2020 at 9:21 AM, jross said:

Done. 

  • White: straight line represents the direction of RBY's back.  The boomerang white line is a mistake from the original photo that could not be removed.
  • Yellow: line across the chest is at the top of the RBY's singlet letters, which is the bottom of the pecs.  The horizontal yellow line starts from the lowest part of the singlet letters.
  • Blue: line across chest is the bottom of the scapula.  The horizontal line starts from the lowest part of the left scap. 

RBY's right arm is over SGs hip.  RBY's right scap is on top of SG and cannot be touching the mat.  The left scapula is also off the mat.

 

blah.jpg

 

C'mon you still can't see where the back/shoulders are from that photo.   But your white line needs to be moved to the right unless RBY's shoulder's are about 1" wide.

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2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

C'mon you still can't see where the back/shoulders are from that photo.   But your white line needs to be moved to the right unless RBY's shoulder's are about 1" wide.

Yessir - according this latest match analysis, RBY's shoulder is clearly on the mat.  4pts NF all day!

poster,210x230,f8f8f8-pad,210x230,f8f8f8

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On 2/11/2020 at 5:40 PM, jross said:

How many NFL challenges remain as called on the field for ambiguous situations?  Answer - all of them.

So is this your way of admitting that the RBY/Gross situation discussed earlier was ambiguous?  Yet you seemed pretty adamant it should have been 0 NF...

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Sticking to my guns that the RBY/Gross match should have had 0 NF.  Above, with Hall, looks like a stalemate and 0 NF to me.  It would be nice to get clarity in the rule book around the spladle position.  

Now here is clear back points...

image.png

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