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TobusRex

Whatever happened to head in the side cradles?

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Time after time I see kids open to head in the side cradles, but hardly ever see anybody take advantage. Saw several instances of guys missing their opponents heads/knee in close proximity, too. When I saw those opportunities I knew easy points were coming.

Have old fashioned cradles gone out of favor or something?

Edited by TobusRex

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3 minutes ago, CoachWrestling said:

PSU guys are constantly fishing for it when they’re letting guys up. The version are you speaking of is just so easy to defend that you won’t see it much in college. 

Agreed.  As soon as the head goes to the side all the pressure comes off...

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14 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

Time after time I see kids open to head in the side cradles, but hardly ever see anybody take advantage. Saw several instances of guys missing their opponents heads/knee in close proximity, too. When I saw those opportunities I knew easy points were coming.

Have old fashioned cradles gone out of favor or something?

I think we still see them at the D1. RBY went near side on Desanto and so did Picc against Lee.  Near-side, far-side, whatever kind of cradle I think has gone to the wayside on the youth level. Its not because they are ineffective, but because they are not flashy. You will see a coach spend all his time teaching his elite guys roll through tilts and a spiral collar rides to tilts and all these things that are more flashy and look like easy back points. However, I am shocked at how infrequently cradles are taught. Even when a kid is able to lock one up in a match, they don't know how to drive the guy over his hip to get the pin. Cradles are too basic and they don't excite many, but I think its a missed opportunity. Thats one thing I do admire about PSU. They all can cradle well and will pin with it if they get a chance. 

Edited by russelscout

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11 minutes ago, CoachWrestling said:

PSU guys are constantly fishing for it when they’re letting guys up. The version are you speaking of is just so easy to defend that you won’t see it much in college. 

Yep. Same reason you don't see a ton of power halfs, double chicken wings, hammerlocks, etc... Turning college guys either takes some deception or brute strength. You can't just put your head in the side and drive to a nearside cradle like in high school where kids ball up as soon as you make them a little uncomfortable.

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Tilts are the in thing at the moment but there have been some guys who have great success with cradles. Rby hit desanto in two which were both stopped immediately due to austin crying out. Daniel Lewis was a monster with a cross face cradle and pinner zahid with one last year. They work on all levels

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Cradles definitely work at the D1 level and I bet they are the most common pinning combination. Maybe second to bars. However, like others have mentioned, just sticking your head in the side and driving to set it up doesn’t work at this level. 

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7 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

I thought that was exactly what he was talking about...

Ya but when he said:

3 hours ago, TobusRex said:

Saw several instances of guys missing their opponents heads/knee in close proximity, too.

I assumed he didnt mean snow plow. You got some clarification for us @TobusRex?

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7 hours ago, TobusRex said:

Time after time I see kids open to head in the side cradles, but hardly ever see anybody take advantage. Saw several instances of guys missing their opponents heads/knee in close proximity, too. When I saw those opportunities I knew easy points were coming.

Have old fashioned cradles gone out of favor or something?

I have to assume the opportunities you are talking about are doing a single leg defense and the person with the whizzer in has a straight leg with his head awfully close to his own knee. 
 

explanation:  It’s bait.  You need to let go of the opponent’s leg with one arm to trap the head and lock up the cradle.  Most times you see the defender holding the outside arm wrist to prevent that.  Or their hand is up to catch the cradle arm.  LASTLY, it is hard to finish from that position in college as most wrestlers don’t panic.  Look at Army v Wisc 165 lb match.  McCormick locked up a cradle on Wick in that same position and it was defended easily.  

Edited by Cptafw164

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7 hours ago, russelscout said:

I think we still see them at the D1. RBY went near side on Desanto and so did Picc against Lee.  Near-side, far-side, whatever kind of cradle I think has gone to the wayside on the youth level. Its not because they are ineffective, but because they are not flashy. You will see a coach spend all his time teaching his elite guys roll through tilts and a spiral collar rides to tilts and all these things that are more flashy and look like easy back points. However, I am shocked at how infrequently cradles are taught. Even when a kid is able to lock one up in a match, they don't know how to drive the guy over his hip to get the pin. Cradles are too basic and they don't excite many, but I think its a missed opportunity. Thats one thing I do admire about PSU. They all can cradle well and will pin with it if they get a chance. 

Best PSU cradle was the one Bubba J put on DT in  2011

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10 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

One reason we don't see a lot of cradles is millennial sportsmanship doesn't allow forcing the knee close to the head.  

Lame.

Its amazing to me how out of touch with reality some are. Taylor, Dake, Burroughs, and Cox are all millennials, and it is millennials that have been behind one of the greatest movements in US wrestling history, but ya, keep calling them lazy, sensitive, etc. Im sure youre a real impressive person by comparison.

Edited by russelscout

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Surprising.  Quite a small gym and crowd at that match.   

Lee looks great this year; definitely coming into his own as a team leader.  Pletcher has a grinding style though.  Will be fun to watch. 

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16 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

Yep. Same reason you don't see a ton of power halfs, double chicken wings, hammerlocks, etc... Turning college guys either takes some deception or brute strength. You can't just put your head in the side and drive to a nearside cradle like in high school where kids ball up as soon as you make them a little uncomfortable.

I see more chicken wings and power halves in college than the cradles I mentioned. When I mention "head in side" cradles I mean the cradles where the bottom guy is splayed out trying to avoid getting turned, which happens a lot when the top wrestler is a hammer. That's the only time you can really work for it, and it's easy to do.

I suspect it's like russelscout says: they are out of fashion, not flashy enough.

Edited by TobusRex

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2 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

I see more chicken wings and power halves in college than the cradles I mentioned. When I mention "head in side" cradles I mean the cradles where the bottom guy is splayed out trying to avoid getting turned, which happens a lot when the top wrestler is a hammer. That's the only time you can really work for it, and it's easy to do.

I suspect it's like russelscout says: they are out of fashion, not flashy enough.

I never called it this, but this must be a, "snowplow."

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1 minute ago, Mphillips said:

I never called it this, but this must be a, "snowplow."

ah.....when you mentioned "snowplow" earlier I thought it sounded like a good description of a head in side cradle. I suspect, due to geography, that we probably know several techniques by different names.

I don't see any reason it can't work in college. Also I saw comments about grade school moves, including lat drops and headlocks. Lateral drops are NOT gradeschool moves. I've never seen a grade school wrestler hit a lat drop, and I'm 90% certain I've never seen a lat drop in Jr High.  Headlocks are pretty common at all levels, even college. I saw Taylor Lamont stick Montorie Bridges with a beautiful headlock a couple weeks ago and end a match quickly.

 

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1 hour ago, russelscout said:

Lame.

Its amazing to me how out of touch with reality some are. Taylor, Dake, Burroughs, and Cox are all millennials, and it is millennials that have been behind one of the greatest movements in US wrestling history, but ya, keep calling them lazy, sensitive, etc. Im sure youre a real impressive person by comparison.

Ok, Boomer!  Some Iowa fans, and maybe others, raked RBY over the coals for forcing  someone unnamed persons knee close to his head.  Where is your sense of humor?

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2 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Ok, Boomer!  Some Iowa fans, and maybe others, raked RBY over the coals for forcing  someone unnamed persons knee close to his head.  Where is your sense of humor?

Snowflakes. You know those Iowa guys.....

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1 minute ago, Plasmodium said:

Ok, Boomer!  Some Iowa fans, and maybe others, raked RBY over the coals for forcing  someone unnamed persons knee close to his head.  Where is your sense of humor?

There is no way russelscout is in his 70's?  

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