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maligned

American collegians at Euro's this weekend

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42 minutes ago, sidakova4991 said:

Yeah, Sadulaev doesn't have heart..  he just went full time up to 97 and adapted correctly, then proceeded to pin Snyder and win the World Championships the next year too :P  with Snyder falling short 

Our backup 97 beat Sadulaev. 

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1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

Glad we agree Sadulaev is weak mentally. Maybe one day he can win 4 in a row, like John Smith and Jordan Burroughs

Ironically, were he wrestling today, Smith probably wouldn't even make an Olympic team, let alone win 2 golds, and world championships would be won at non-Olympic weights.

Conversely, how would Dake's career look with ten weights available for the duration?

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14 hours ago, maligned said:

Yeah, it was a duck to a launch from behind. Folkstyle guys sometimes instinctively try to push in and fight hands and can be vulnerable to that toss. Not sure if it's a thing or not in his case--but he was definitely rolling his eyes hard at himself lying on his belly in par terre.

That even catches Zain out now and again.

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6 hours ago, LifeintheRed said:

I respectfully disagree with your assessment . . . and take particular exception to the part where you bolster your argument by claiming beating Germany's #2 as an accomplishment of some sort. 

With all due respect to you and Myles Amine, he is second tier in USA at 86 which is why he is wrestling for San Marino and frankly, his road to the finals at Euros was egregiously cupcake-ish- not like he had anything to do with that or is complaining about it. 

His road to fifth at Worlds was anything but a cakewalk, and he likely outperformed any of our options save DT.

Although I doubt he'd have much for DT, his results suggest he'd be right in there with Ringer and Zahid.

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29 minutes ago, whaletail said:

and he likely outperformed any of our options save DT.

I object your honor . . . speculation. :D 

I was at worlds- I saw what he did and I cheered for him- I'm no Christian Pyles. But, he's 0 for never won vs. Zahid and even Mark Hall in college and I don't think the result would be different in freestyle. Besides, give me Myles Martin over Myles Amine 99 times out of 100. Hell, gimme Nate Jackson- that's guy's got some stuff. 

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Ironically, were he wrestling today, Smith probably wouldn't even make an Olympic team, let alone win 2 golds, and world championships would be won at non-Olympic weights.
Conversely, how would Dake's career look with ten weights available for the duration?
Yeah, no way he would make the team if he were wrestling today. He's far too old.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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12 hours ago, LifeintheRed said:

I object your honor . . . speculation. :D 

I was at worlds- I saw what he did and I cheered for him- I'm no Christian Pyles. But, he's 0 for never won vs. Zahid and even Mark Hall in college and I don't think the result would be different in freestyle. Besides, give me Myles Martin over Myles Amine 99 times out of 100. Hell, gimme Nate Jackson- that's guy's got some stuff. 

Although we'll obviously have to wait to see whether 2019 Worlds was the apogee of his senior career (and thus an anomaly), those matches suggest that he's improved significantly since we last saw him wrestle folkstyle.  And given his athletic ability, that wouldn't surprise me.

Mind, the only Zahid match I can recall was at NCAAs his sophomore year, and IIRC, it was a very close match.  As were his losses to Hall.

Personally, I suspect he's probably on par with MyMar, who's but a step behind Zahid.

 

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15 hours ago, whaletail said:

Ironically, were he wrestling today, Smith probably wouldn't even make an Olympic team, let alone win 2 golds, and world championships would be won at non-Olympic weights.

Conversely, how would Dake's career look with ten weights available for the duration?

True, I also think Brent Metcalf would have a World or Oly medal if he hadn’t competed during the dreaded ball grab/clinch era. It’s hard to make historical comparisons.

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1 hour ago, pamela said:

True, I also think Brent Metcalf would have a World or Oly medal if he hadn’t competed during the dreaded ball grab/clinch era. It’s hard to make historical comparisons.

Blaming the ball grab for Metcalf not medaling is quite a reach. He went a number of years without winning a single match at worlds.

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1 hour ago, 77again said:

Blaming the ball grab for Metcalf not medaling is quite a reach. He went a number of years without winning a single match at worlds.

It’s not just the ball grab, though I seem to recall him at the mercy of it a few times, I think 2010 Metcalf would have better results under the 2020 rules with 2 3-min periods (or even the old single 5 min clock), center mat control/passivity, pushouts, etc. - the current format favors his style.

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3 hours ago, pamela said:

True, I also think Brent Metcalf would have a World or Oly medal if he hadn’t competed during the dreaded ball grab/clinch era. It’s hard to make historical comparisons.

That era was awful, but yeah, Metcalf certainly would have benefited from a better ruleset.

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2 hours ago, 77again said:

Blaming the ball grab for Metcalf not medaling is quite a reach. He went a number of years without winning a single match at worlds.

He would have likely been much more competitive with pushouts, and the styles that incentivizes.

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20 hours ago, whaletail said:

Ironically, were he wrestling today, Smith probably wouldn't even make an Olympic team, let alone win 2 golds, and world championships would be won at non-Olympic weights.

Conversely, how would Dake's career look with ten weights available for the duration?

Just curious, what makes you say Smith wouldn’t have been able to win under the current format. I do think winning a gold is tougher now. But curious as to why you say Smith wouldn’t be able to do it?

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4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Just curious, what makes you say Smith wouldn’t have been able to win under the current format. I do think winning a gold is tougher now. But curious as to why you say Smith wouldn’t be able to do it?

For starters you have to go undefeated the whole tournament...

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1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

For starters you have to go undefeated the whole tournament...

True, but we all know because of the pool placings he didn’t need to go all out that whole match to win. He just needed to play safe. 
 

Me personally if I was looking to analyze something I would look at the entirety of sample size over six years and give it more weight then one match he was able to coast. So there has to be more to it than that. 

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23 hours ago, whaletail said:

Ironically, were he wrestling today, Smith probably wouldn't even make an Olympic team, let alone win 2 golds, and world championships would be won at non-Olympic weights.

Conversely, how would Dake's career look with ten weights available for the duration?

Fake news. He'd be perfect for 143 with a same day weigh in, which is the exact equivalent to 136.5 with a day before weigh in.  Who in your mind would beat him at such a weight? 

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22 hours ago, LifeintheRed said:

I object your honor . . . speculation. :D 

I was at worlds- I saw what he did and I cheered for him- I'm no Christian Pyles. But, he's 0 for never won vs. Zahid and even Mark Hall in college and I don't think the result would be different in freestyle. Besides, give me Myles Martin over Myles Amine 99 times out of 100. Hell, gimme Nate Jackson- that's guy's got some stuff. 

Idk Amine was pretty awesome at worlds last year, beating several world medalists and the German who then teched our rep, who may I remind you beat Martin on his way to making the team.  

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Here are Amine's wins from 2019 Worlds and his opponent's top result in their senior international history.  Impressive stuff from Amine. 

  • Win | Ali SHABANAU (BLR) | Worlds 3rd
  • Win | Yurieski TORREBLANCA QUERALTA (CUB) | Worlds 8th
  • Win | Sohsuke TAKATANI (JPN) | Worlds 2nd, Olympics 7th
  • Win | Ahmed Ruslanovic DUDAROV (GER) | Worlds 24th
  • Loss | Hassan aliazam YAZDANICHARATI (IRI) | Olympic champion
  • Loss | Artur NAIFONOV (RUS)  | Worlds 3rd

Amine - 5th at Worlds out of 43 wrestlers!

Fans likely discount his success because while his college performance has been great, he has multiple losses to Mark Hall, Zahid Valencia, and others.

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On 2/16/2020 at 4:44 PM, Lurker said:

Just curious, what makes you say Smith wouldn’t have been able to win under the current format. I do think winning a gold is tougher now. But curious as to why you say Smith wouldn’t be able to do it?

No weight classes near 136.5 lb (his international weight, IIRC), and I don't think he'd be able to compete at 57 (especially with two same day weigh-ins) or 65 (too small).

Although not nearly as big an issue, he also wrestled in the round robin era, and won at least one gold with a loss.  At the mercy of modern line brackets, he'd likely need some luck.

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On 2/16/2020 at 7:50 PM, Cradle1 said:

Fake news. He'd be perfect for 143 with a same day weigh in, which is the exact equivalent to 136.5 with a day before weigh in.  Who in your mind would beat him at such a weight? 

I think he'd still be too small, so... almost everybody.  He wrestled 134 at OSU without any difficulty, suggesting he'd be an undersized 65er.  Well undersized.

At that level, and at the lighter weights, you don't make up that difference easily, if at all.

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7 hours ago, whaletail said:

No weight classes near 136.5 lb (his international weight, IIRC), and I don't think he'd be able to compete at 57 (especially with two same day weigh-ins) or 65 (too small).

Although not nearly as big an issue, he also wrestled in the round robin era, and won at least one gold with a loss.  At the mercy of modern line brackets, he'd likely need some luck.

I mean if he was a Brandon Slay or even a Sanderson type Olympic champ, I could maybe see that stance. But when you win six in a row, probably a little more to it than bracket set up and luck. 

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On 2/17/2020 at 10:42 PM, whaletail said:

I think he'd still be too small, so... almost everybody.  He wrestled 134 at OSU without any difficulty, suggesting he'd be an undersized 65er.  Well undersized.

At that level, and at the lighter weights, you don't make up that difference easily, if at all.

You just have no comprehension of difference between same day and day before weigh ins.

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