Jump to content
MonagFam

Is Too Much Emphasis Placed on the Olympics, Worlds, Continental Championships?

Recommended Posts

Bear with me for a moment as I am guessing the single biggest way of getting wrestling out to the general public is through the Olympics and possibly to a lesser extent the Worlds and various Continental Championships.  I don't know what sort of bump it causes internationally for the sport, but people may be inspired or at least recall an Olympian especially a medal winner.

I think what I am getting at is how limited in scope those appear to be.  As far as I know, the countries have one wrestler per weight class (and maybe not even one) that could compete, but not more than one.  It's not the only sport that has this -- although many (i.e. Gymnastics, Track & Field) have multiple individual competitors -- with boxing sharing the same fate.  I guess with boxing, though, there is always a professional option for those that don't make the cut -- Bud Crawford, for example. would lose his chance to make the 2008 Olympics, but actually turned pro and had three bouts before those Olympics came down.

Sure, you should have the best in each country, but is it really the best field of competitors?  Some questions / thoughts --

  • When Karelin went undefeated for 13 years, how good was the next best Russian?  Could that guy have mopped up much of the competition too?
  • In general, how often is the 2nd best Russian, Iranian, American, etc. a top 5 or 10 wrestler, but can't beat the # 1 in his country so misses out in these other competitions?
  • What is the best tournament that features multiple wrestlers at the same weight for different countries?  Why isn't this played up more as it seems like it would be THE event (except that maybe some are always saving themselves for the Olympics?)
  • Not bashing the Olympics as much as wishing wrestling had something else that captured the public's attention the same way.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's say we take the top 3 from each country for these tournaments. I'm not sure that having Russia, US, Iran, and Azerbaijan take 7 or the top 8 places in many weights would help grow the sport. 

BTW, this same issue happens over and over again in college and high school wrestling where a top level, second string person sits home. Just ask Nick Nevilles about last year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think college is above olympic.  I realize an olympic gold is the prize of wrestling.  But I think wrestling fans should put more promotion into folk style.  In MMA, guys that are good at folk have proved to have greater success than guys who are good at freestyle.  What good is it to take a guy down if you can't keep them down?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

I think college is above olympic.  I realize an olympic gold is the prize of wrestling.  But I think wrestling fans should put more promotion into folk style.  In MMA, guys that are good at folk have proved to have greater success than guys who are good at freestyle.  What good is it to take a guy down if you can't keep them down?

Are you serious? Do you realize how many NCAA champs can’t even make the world team let alone win worlds? The US is not the best country in the world at wrestling, but somehow our college wrestling is better than international. This is like saying college football in Canada is better than the NFL. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you serious? Do you realize how many NCAA champs can’t even make the world team let alone win worlds? The US is not the best country in the world at wrestling, but somehow our college wrestling is better than international. This is like saying college football in Canada is better than the NFL. 

He thinks age group wrestling is tougher than senior level competition amongst men. 

That sums it up.

 

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

I think college is above olympic.  I realize an olympic gold is the prize of wrestling.  But I think wrestling fans should put more promotion into folk style.  In MMA, guys that are good at folk have proved to have greater success than guys who are good at freestyle.  What good is it to take a guy down if you can't keep them down?

This is a terrible take. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don’t wanna put words into @shieldofpistis’s mouth but I don’t think he’s saying that NCAAs are tougher than Worlds; his idea is to promote the sport hardest at the college level bc that’s the real feeder into MMA and MMA fans, and hence best for the popularity of wrestling?

I don’t totally agree because I think that’s what’s already happening now, plus I don’t really care for MMA, but I think that’s his point.

Back to the original topic, it would be nice if wrestling was so huge that it had pods of pro leagues and worldwide, and Worlds was every 4 years opposite of the Olympics (so, a global championship every 2 years with qualifiers in between) - kind of like FIFA and soccer - but we’re pretty far from that. I’m not sure how the pro leagues now in Europe and Asia are tied in to UWW, or if they get development money. I assume they’re privately funded, like AGON, APW and whatnot here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don’t wanna put words into @shieldofpistis’s mouth but I don’t think he’s saying that NCAAs are tougher than Worlds; his idea is to promote the sport hardest at the college level bc that’s the real feeder into MMA and MMA fans, and hence best for the popularity of wrestling?
I don’t totally agree because I think that’s what’s already happening now, plus I don’t really care for MMA, but I think that’s his point.
Back to the original topic, it would be nice if wrestling was so huge that it had pods of pro leagues and worldwide, and Worlds was every 4 years opposite of the Olympics (so, a global championship every 2 years with qualifiers in between) - kind of like FIFA and soccer - but we’re pretty far from that. I’m not sure how the pro leagues now in Europe and Asia are tied in to UWW, or if they get development money. I assume they’re privately funded, like AGON, APW and whatnot here.
MMA = PED's



Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Three changes to both Olympic and World Championships would be a good thing.

True double elimination format.

Two wrestlers per weight, per country.

Wrestle the whole time period unless one pins the opponent. Can still give extra points or whatever for superior performance, but it you want to cut your minutes on the mat - you pin the opponent.

As for the Olympics - recognize every weight used in the World Championships. Would make for better wrestling rather than a one off weight class problem every four years.

 

As for Too Much Emphasis - you don't complain about the World Series or Super Bowl. People want to see the top guys go at it. An overall Champion makes for a better show and more interest. Publicity and marketing are sorely lacking and that should be addressed.

 

Edited by WillieBoy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Are you serious? Do you realize how many NCAA champs can’t even make the world team let alone win worlds? The US is not the best country in the world at wrestling, but somehow our college wrestling is better than international. This is like saying college football in Canada is better than the NFL. 

I am talking forms of wrestling, not country to country.  I am not saying our college kids are above world champions.  What I am saying is that Folk style is superier to free style in self-defense.  I also think true wrestling should consider ground wrestling.  It never was meant just to battle for who was the best takedown artist. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, pamela said:

Don’t wanna put words into @shieldofpistis’s mouth but I don’t think he’s saying that NCAAs are tougher than Worlds; his idea is to promote the sport hardest at the college level bc that’s the real feeder into MMA and MMA fans, and hence best for the popularity of wrestling?

I don’t totally agree because I think that’s what’s already happening now, plus I don’t really care for MMA, but I think that’s his point.

Back to the original topic, it would be nice if wrestling was so huge that it had pods of pro leagues and worldwide, and Worlds was every 4 years opposite of the Olympics (so, a global championship every 2 years with qualifiers in between) - kind of like FIFA and soccer - but we’re pretty far from that. I’m not sure how the pro leagues now in Europe and Asia are tied in to UWW, or if they get development money. I assume they’re privately funded, like AGON, APW and whatnot here.

I think true wrestling also contains ground grappling.   That is one of the reasons why I love to watch Spencer Lee.  He has put a lot of time and effort into his top game.  That is why he is able to tech guys sometimes with only getting 2 taketowns. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

I am talking forms of wrestling, not country to country.  I am not saying our college kids are above world champions.  What I am saying is that Folk style is superier to free style in self-defense.  I also think true wrestling should consider ground wrestling.  It never was meant just to battle for who was the best takedown artist. 

Nobody does wrestling for self defense.  It became obsolete for self defense the day a sword was invented.  Have a wrestler fight a fencer and see who wins.  Wrestling is a sport, an athletic competition, just like any other sport.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Billyhoyle said:

Nobody does wrestling for self defense.  It became obsolete for self defense the day a sword was invented.  Have a wrestler fight a fencer and see who wins.  Wrestling is a sport, an athletic competition, just like any other sport.  

Not true.  It is a martial art.  Truth be told, i was bullied until i started to wrestle.  Goes who never wrestled have no clue how to defend takedowns

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ugh...

wrestling is most definitely a "martial art"

history has proven it is the most relevant of all...

most who follow the sport closely understand that world medal is at least as impressive if not more than olympic gold...

the average person only gets olympic gold...

you have to decide which means more...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, LJB said:

ugh...

wrestling is most definitely a "martial art"

history has proven it is the most relevant of all...

most who follow the sport closely understand that world medal is at least as impressive if not more than olympic gold...

the average person only gets olympic gold...

you have to decide which means more...

One word:  HA!

Most relevant? Nope, that is Chuck Norris - the guy that God himself feared. God wrestled Jacob and had to cheat to win by medical forfeit. He was afraid to even step into the same State with Chuck Norris. You will also notice John L. Sullivan and John Smith and Cael Sanderson never even tried to go against Chuck Norris. You won't even find where they have written his name, much less whispered it. All are afraid of him because Chuck Norrisis so fearsome he doesn't even do pushups - he pushed the earth down! Chuck Norris doesn't go hunting, he goes Killing! Chuck Norris can hear sign language! Chuck Norris can speak Braille! Chuck Norris is the reason Waldo is hiding.

In the world of Martial Arts - Chuck Norris is #1 and is so good the next placer is only #32.

So - be careful in claiming what is the best...

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

Im not saying the caliber of wrestling is better at college than internation. 

 

I am saying I believe folk style is a truer form of wresting with more practical pupose.   I think folk should be promoted.

I kinda get what you’re trying at, but as long as the best in the world is decided on a FS/GR mat, the best athletes are going to go to that. Even with the money in MMA the best wrestling athletes are going after the Olympics by and large, with MMA being a possibility after. You’ll get your Pico’s and potentially put Bo in a spot where yeah they’re going to give it one shot but the foot is already in the MMA door, but by and large the best wrestling athletes are going to make that Olympic run.  And if we want to support our nations best athlete, trying to diminish or take away from international styles certainly works against supporting them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lurker said:

I kinda get what you’re trying at, but as long as the best in the world is decided on a FS/GR mat, the best athletes are going to go to that. Even with the money in MMA the best wrestling athletes are going after the Olympics by and large, with MMA being a possibility after. You’ll get your Pico’s and potentially put Bo in a spot where yeah they’re going to give it one shot but the foot is already in the MMA door, but by and large the best wrestling athletes are going to make that Olympic run.  And if we want to support our nations best athlete, trying to diminish or take away from international styles certainly works against supporting them. 

Snyder has been our most marketable but i dont think hed fair well on ufc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/15/2020 at 10:58 AM, shieldofpistis said:

 

That's the opinion of Ben Askren

For as great as he was in this country, Ben also quit wrestling Freestyle because it didn't suit his style. Instead of using his deep bag of skills to adapt to the rules, he took his ball and went home.

Ben is a very nice guy and generally good for the sport, but he is unbelievably self-righteous at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...