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Jimmy Cinnabon

Bring back Berge was a mistake

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What an odd choice by Cael.  Berge, who had wrestled 1 dual match before this weekend, after suffering a severe concussion in freestyle earlier this year, was brought back versus Ohio State.  He was wrestling Quinn Kinner, who had started the year at 133 and bumped up 3 weight classes to 157.  Somehow Kinner looked larger than Berge which makes me wonder how the heck he ever made 133 in the first place.

Berge looked good for the first 2 periods then gassed badly in the 3rd and lost.  He is now 1-1 with 1 dual meet remaining, so obviously he will be unseeded at B10s and will need to "steal" a spot to make NCAAs.

 

If Berge had not been brought back he would have been a slamdunk to get a medical redshirt year.  Yet Cael sent him out.  Even if he is 100% recovered from his head injury, he is clearly not in top wrestling condition and one wonders if he can even make it to peak condition in 3 weeks, having wrestled only 3 matches before Big 10s.  Moreso, Penn State is looking like they may only have 5 scoring wrestlers.

 

Brandon Meredith is 1-7 in Big 10 duals, and his only win was a forfeit.  He will be the lowest seed at 125 and will not qualify for NCAAs.

Verkleeren is so frustrating to watch.  He has great defense and can take the #1 wrestler at 149 to OT.  However, he has close to zero offense as it is, and against top guys it becomes zero.  He can take anyone to OT and lose.  I think he qualifies for NCAAs but wins 1 or fewer matches there.

Berge -- based on how he is now I have to think he doesn't qualify for NCAAs.  He could ride an aerodyne non-stop until B10s and still not be in top wrestling shape for B10s.  Really hate Cael's move in bringing him back when it's clear that (1) Berge isn't in wrestling shape and (2) Penn State doesn't have a realistic shot at the team title even if Berge were healthy.

Rasheed - I don't know if he's healthy, but he's clearly undersized.  He's also shown close to no offense and hasn't gotten close to cradling anyone. He is 4-4 overall, and 4-4 in B10 duals.  I think he might qualify for NCAAs but I don't see him winning more than a single match.

Nevills - this is the biggest disappointment for me of the 5. He started the year out hot but has slumped badly vs Cass, Steveson and Gas Tank Gary.  Against good B10 heavies outside of a single shot vs Cass has shown almost no offense and even worse, no ability to get out on bottom.  Worse yet he appeared to injury himself vs Traub.  That is the only reason he should lose to a 215 pound heavyweight.  At first I projected him as a low AA.  I think he makes NCAAs and maybe goes 2-2 at best.

 

PSU may have 5 finalists, but they will be hard pressed to get more than 2-3 points at NCAAs from 125, 149, 157, 197 and Heavy.  Just too many holes this year to PSU to dethrone Iowa.

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1 minute ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

What an odd choice by Cael.  Berge, who had wrestled 1 dual match before this weekend, after suffering a severe concussion in freestyle earlier this year, was brought back versus Ohio State.  He was wrestling Quinn Kinner, who had started the year at 133 and bumped up 3 weight classes to 157.  Somehow Kinner looked larger than Berge which makes me wonder how the heck he ever made 133 in the first place.

Berge looked good for the first 2 periods then gassed badly in the 3rd and lost.  He is now 1-1 with 1 dual meet remaining, so obviously he will be unseeded at B10s and will need to "steal" a spot to make NCAAs.

 

If Berge had not been brought back he would have been a slamdunk to get a medical redshirt year.  Yet Cael sent him out.  Even if he is 100% recovered from his head injury, he is clearly not in top wrestling condition and one wonders if he can even make it to peak condition in 3 weeks, having wrestled only 3 matches before Big 10s.  Moreso, Penn State is looking like they may only have 5 scoring wrestlers.

 

Brandon Meredith is 1-7 in Big 10 duals, and his only win was a forfeit.  He will be the lowest seed at 125 and will not qualify for NCAAs.

Verkleeren is so frustrating to watch.  He has great defense and can take the #1 wrestler at 149 to OT.  However, he has close to zero offense as it is, and against top guys it becomes zero.  He can take anyone to OT and lose.  I think he qualifies for NCAAs but wins 1 or fewer matches there.

Berge -- based on how he is now I have to think he doesn't qualify for NCAAs.  He could ride an aerodyne non-stop until B10s and still not be in top wrestling shape for B10s.  Really hate Cael's move in bringing him back when it's clear that (1) Berge isn't in wrestling shape and (2) Penn State doesn't have a realistic shot at the team title even if Berge were healthy.

Rasheed - I don't know if he's healthy, but he's clearly undersized.  He's also shown close to no offense and hasn't gotten close to cradling anyone. He is 4-4 overall, and 4-4 in B10 duals.  I think he might qualify for NCAAs but I don't see him winning more than a single match.

Nevills - this is the biggest disappointment for me of the 5. He started the year out hot but has slumped badly vs Cass, Steveson and Gas Tank Gary.  Against good B10 heavies outside of a single shot vs Cass has shown almost no offense and even worse, no ability to get out on bottom.  Worse yet he appeared to injury himself vs Traub.  That is the only reason he should lose to a 215 pound heavyweight.  At first I projected him as a low AA.  I think he makes NCAAs and maybe goes 2-2 at best.

 

PSU may have 5 finalists, but they will be hard pressed to get more than 2-3 points at NCAAs from 125, 149, 157, 197 and Heavy.  Just too many holes this year to PSU to dethrone Iowa.

Well Jimbo, first glad to see your back from your vacation to your other ghost accounts,  and outside of Berge I don’t care for any of the other 4 wrestlers you listed but I will bet anything that  atleast 1 of those guys scores more then 3 points alone at ncaas 

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11 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

What an odd choice by Cael.  Berge, who had wrestled 1 dual match before this weekend, after suffering a severe concussion in freestyle earlier this year, was brought back versus Ohio State.  He was wrestling Quinn Kinner, who had started the year at 133 and bumped up 3 weight classes to 157.  Somehow Kinner looked larger than Berge which makes me wonder how the heck he ever made 133 in the first place.

Berge looked good for the first 2 periods then gassed badly in the 3rd and lost.  He is now 1-1 with 1 dual meet remaining, so obviously he will be unseeded at B10s and will need to "steal" a spot to make NCAAs.

 

If Berge had not been brought back he would have been a slamdunk to get a medical redshirt year.  Yet Cael sent him out.  Even if he is 100% recovered from his head injury, he is clearly not in top wrestling condition and one wonders if he can even make it to peak condition in 3 weeks, having wrestled only 3 matches before Big 10s.  Moreso, Penn State is looking like they may only have 5 scoring wrestlers.

 

Brandon Meredith is 1-7 in Big 10 duals, and his only win was a forfeit.  He will be the lowest seed at 125 and will not qualify for NCAAs.

Verkleeren is so frustrating to watch.  He has great defense and can take the #1 wrestler at 149 to OT.  However, he has close to zero offense as it is, and against top guys it becomes zero.  He can take anyone to OT and lose.  I think he qualifies for NCAAs but wins 1 or fewer matches there.

Berge -- based on how he is now I have to think he doesn't qualify for NCAAs.  He could ride an aerodyne non-stop until B10s and still not be in top wrestling shape for B10s.  Really hate Cael's move in bringing him back when it's clear that (1) Berge isn't in wrestling shape and (2) Penn State doesn't have a realistic shot at the team title even if Berge were healthy.

Rasheed - I don't know if he's healthy, but he's clearly undersized.  He's also shown close to no offense and hasn't gotten close to cradling anyone. He is 4-4 overall, and 4-4 in B10 duals.  I think he might qualify for NCAAs but I don't see him winning more than a single match.

Nevills - this is the biggest disappointment for me of the 5. He started the year out hot but has slumped badly vs Cass, Steveson and Gas Tank Gary.  Against good B10 heavies outside of a single shot vs Cass has shown almost no offense and even worse, no ability to get out on bottom.  Worse yet he appeared to injury himself vs Traub.  That is the only reason he should lose to a 215 pound heavyweight.  At first I projected him as a low AA.  I think he makes NCAAs and maybe goes 2-2 at best.

 

PSU may have 5 finalists, but they will be hard pressed to get more than 2-3 points at NCAAs from 125, 149, 157, 197 and Heavy.  Just too many holes this year to PSU to dethrone Iowa.

What makes you think you know enough to make the subject line claim?

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Junk!!!!!!!!!!!  Not every kid wants to stay in college 5-6 years fist off if he felt he can go then WHY NOT?   Berge was off for months and just came back.  Who cares if kinner started at 133.  Berge was a R12 last year and is the BIG weakest weight.   I have little doubt he gets in the tourney and score 5-10 points which might be just enough to keep them right with Iowa.  

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28 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Well Jimbo, first glad to see your back from your vacation to your other ghost accounts,  and outside of Berge I don’t care for any of the other 4 wrestlers you listed but I will bet anything that  atleast 1 of those guys scores more then 3 points alone at ncaas 

Who do you think of those 5 will score more than 3 points?

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2 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Who do you think of those 5 will score more than 3 points?

Honestly I think Berge and Nevills do and If Verk or Shak I wouldn’t be surprised the slightest, not to mention there is 0 evidence that a Cael run penn state team is going to have 5 guys wet the bed in the midst of a team race , in fact the past decade has showed the total opposite 

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2 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Honestly I think Berge and Nevills do and If Verk or Shak I wouldn’t be surprised the slightest, not to mention there is 0 evidence that a Cael run penn state team is going to have 5 guys wet the bed in the midst of a team race , in fact the past decade has showed the total opposite 

I don't really view it as wetting the bed.  Berge and Shak are injured and not in wrestling condition.  It's simply not realistic to expect them to AA when combined they have less than 10 matches and are sporting .500 records.  Maybe Nevills goes on a tear but he has looked REALLY bad the last 3 matches versus legit B10 competition.

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6 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

I don't really view it as wetting the bed.  Berge and Shak are injured and not in wrestling condition.  It's simply not realistic to expect them to AA when combined they have less than 10 matches and are sporting .500 records.  Maybe Nevills goes on a tear but he has looked REALLY bad the last 3 matches versus legit B10 competition.

I would say Berge is just out of shape and he has 30 days to improve on that, and if you don’t think 30 days is enough time to get back in the swing of things you don’t wrestling very well, I mean look at guys when the season starts in nov and the jumps they make by the end of December

the way I see it Berge beat Lugo and Degan last year, both guys who I view as definitely better then  Kaleb Young, and Berge beat both of them while cutting way to much weight, so in shape Berge I would only have behind Deakin and maybe a healthy Coleman in the Big tens 

while obviously still feeling the concussion he beat the guy currently ranked #9 in December and outside the top 3 (deakin Hidley, Carr) I could Berge beating literally everyone else

so you want to make a wager or what 

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1 minute ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

You'd be making a wager with someone who's actively welching on multiple bets and can't come up with a couple hundred bucks to donate to charity. 

I’m not going to lose so why not? I need 5 penn state wrestlers to put together 4 total points at NCAAs, I’m not to concerned 

 and if he loses and skips out then he’s just a D bag skipping out on another charity 

Edited by Antitroll2828

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34 minutes ago, malcolmJfromPA said:

Besides I think Iowa is know for wetting the bed in March anyway.   Just take a look at Bull, Murin, Lugo and Warner.   Not great post season wrestlers.

Iowa seed to finish last year:
 

125: 3:1

133: 7:5

141: 22:R12

149: 10:8

157: 6:5

165 1:7

174: DNQ

184: 12:R16

197: 5:7

285: 28:R12

They wrestled above seed at 6 of 9 weights last year. And 2 examples you gave both wrestled above their seed, while the others still AA'd

All of that while defending Berge who was seeded 12 and finished R16

Edited by russelscout

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16 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

I’m not going to lose so why not? I need 5 penn state wrestlers to put together 4 total points at NCAAs, I’m not to concerned 

 and if he loses and skips out then he’s just a D bag skipping out on another charity 

You said ONE of those guys would score at least 3.5 team points at NCAA, Now you are saying allFive of them will score at least 3.5 team points, Kind of hard to call even JimmieC a welcher when you want to change the conditions of the bet,

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That is the thing about severe concussions.  You can appear to have recovered and look great in the room but when you have to wrestle a real match, things just don't click the way they normally do.  Maybe he gassed, it could still be the concussion but a wrestler of Berge's caliber even not in the best of shape should've won that match, he should've been able to gut it out like we see other really good wrestlers do when they aren't looking their best.  There was no gutting it out, he was done in the 3rd.

I'm leaning towards the concussion still.

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Pipher would have lost as well.  you can't deny the upside with Berge is significantly more.  Anyone that says this was a bad idea does not get it.  The young man is good to go + coach wants him to go + he is your best at that weight = WHY NOT SEND HIM OUT THERE?   Any other debate has no basis.

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19 minutes ago, RichB said:

You said ONE of those guys would score at least 3.5 team points at NCAA, Now you are saying allFive of them will score at least 3.5 team points, Kind of hard to call even JimmieC a welcher when you want to change the conditions of the bet,

Calm down, take a deep breath, I just worded my post wrong...and I didn’t call him a welcher another poster said I was making a bet with someone who owes multiple people 

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We should make a site wide pact that no one will engage with or comment on JC threads until he pays up his bets. 
 

Dude wrote a bunch of checks with his mouth that his ass can’t cash. I love the lighthearted, small bets to RTCs on this board. Letting Cinnabon out of his bets is bad for the spirit of the little bets made here. 

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2 hours ago, RichB said:

Kind of hard to call even JimmieC a welcher when you want to change the conditions of the bet,

I can tell you for a fact that I'm waiting for the proof of his $100 donation to the NLWC on my behalf. Slush Fund is getting kind of low!

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I really like how this guy Jimmy C takes it on the chin so often by so many, yet never engages back in kind unless it has to do with WRESTLING. I’m only a member a few years and could never understand why someone who creates so many interesting topics <generating more replies than most> is a target for harsh criticism. I’m glad he’s back and I look forward to his style of “thinking out of the box” as we approach the most exciting part of the season.

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