Who has the best team of backups?

[ConnorsDad 596]

I thought this might be an interesting exercise. Since we know everybody's starting lineup for the most part, then figure out their second best lineup. Who has the best dual team? Who has the best tournament team? Are they the same? Assuming everybody wrestles up to their potential, I think most of us would agree that Iowa has the best tournament team this year but I don't think their dominance is anywhere near as big in a dual setting.

All that being said I will vote, or in my opinion, Iowa would be number one in both a dual and tournament setting with their backups. I look back a few years and even during Penn State's dominance I still found Iowa to be extremely close or even better if using only their second string wrestlers. I could be wrong as I didn't go incredibly deep but it surprised me about past teams considering the incredible recruiting classes Penn State has put together. Thoughts?

125 - Aaron Cashman

133 - Paul Glynn

141 - Carter Happel (Eierman)

148 - Vince Turk

157 - Keegan Shaw

165 - Jeremiah Moody

174 - Nelson Brands

184 - Abe Assad (Wilcke

197 - Zach Glazier

285 - Aaron Costello 

Pretty fair lineup.

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by ConnorsDad

[malcolmJfromPA 23]

That team would beat Duke and Brown for sure!  Lol. 

[klehner 755]

The Cornell starting lineup.

[nhs67 2,099]

14 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

I thought this might be an interesting exercise. Since we know everybody's starting lineup for the most part, then figure out their second best lineup. Who has the best dual team? Who has the best tournament team? Are they the same? Assuming everybody wrestles up to their potential, I think most of us would agree that Iowa has the best tournament team this year but I don't think their dominance is anywhere near as big in a dual setting.

All that being said I will vote, or in my opinion, Iowa would be number one in both a dual and tournament setting with their backups. I look back a few years and even during Penn State's dominance I still found Iowa to be extremely close or even better if using only their second string wrestlers. I could be wrong as I didn't go incredibly deep but it surprised me about past teams considering the incredible recruiting classes Penn State has put together. Thoughts?

125 - Aaron Cashman

133 - Paul Glynn

141 - Carter Happel (Eierman)

148 - Vince Turk

157 - Keegan Shaw

165 - Jeremiah Moody

174 - Nelson Brands

184 - Abe Assad (Wilcke

197 - Zach Glazier

285 - Aaron Costello 

Pretty fair lineup.

 

If we're attempting the best team, using non-starters, put Wilke at 184 and then I'd use Glosser at 157.

[nhs67 2,099]

Honestly, it looks like Iowa is the clear #1 for non-starters, unless you're including the Olympic redshirts of UofM, then they are quite likely/possibly the #1.  The #3 appears to be clearly Ohio State, to me.

Oklahoma State is up there.  Pretty much the power schools that have been perennial Top 10 and have been recruiting well should be well off.

[Sublime607 145]

Not really sure where the entire backup team stands but Arizona St might just have the second best HWT in the nation redshirting.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Sublime607

[malcolmJfromPA 23]

1 minute ago, Sublime607 said:

Not really sure where the entire backup team stands but Arizona St might just have the second best HWT in the nation redshirting.

Did Kerk transfer again from PSU to ASU?

Edited February 18, 2020 by malcolmJfromPA

[Sublime607 145]

14 minutes ago, malcolmJfromPA said:

Did Kerk transfer again from PSU to ASU?

You statement is valid but your user name prevents you from seeing anything other than the Color Blue subjectively.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Sublime607

[malcolmJfromPA 23]

3 minutes ago, Sublime607 said:

You statement is valid but your user name prevents you from seeing anything other than the Color Blue subjectively.

Lol.  Im subjective.   Just thought my reply was funny.   Those 2 will duke it out over the next 4 years so it will be fun to see what happens.

[LemonPie 1,368]

It's almost always Iowa, Mizzou, and Oklahoma State.  Cheap in-state and out-of-state tuition, easy admission standards, large rosters.  

[Sublime607 145]

5 minutes ago, malcolmJfromPA said:

Lol.  Im subjective.   Just thought my reply was funny.   Those 2 will duke it out over the next 4 years so it will be fun to see what happens.

That we can agree on and I apologize for the snarky response but the mentality PA fans seem to have on these boards is... If it isnt PA it isnt wrestling and its run its course.

[AZ_wrestling 119]

27 minutes ago, Sublime607 said:

Not really sure where the entire backup team stands but Arizona St might just have the second best HWT in the nation redshirting.

Schultz? The second best HW in the nation? Hahaha

[ConnorsDad 596]

55 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

If we're attempting the best team, using non-starters, put Wilke at 184 and then I'd use Glosser at 157.

Thanks. I don't know as much about their lower weights so I was mainly guessing and I really wasn't sure who their starter is going to be at the end of the year at 184. It would probably be a stronger lineup I would imagine if Assad was the starter to have Wilkie at 197 and maybe somebody else at 184 but I'm just guessing here.

[ConnorsDad 596]

23 minutes ago, LemonPie said:

It's almost always Iowa, Mizzou, and Oklahoma State.  Cheap in-state and out-of-state tuition, easy admission standards, large rosters.  

Thanks. I was wondering if that was something that might prohibit Penn State from having the depth of other schools. Obviously they have a lot of elite wrestlers but I didn't look deep enough to see what there backups are.

[malcolmJfromPA 23]

Well PSU does have a tone in Redshirt.  Lee, Manville, Beard, Starocci and Kerkvielt.   Id say that is better then a team of 10 backups point wise in a tourney.

[ConnorsDad 596]

14 minutes ago, AZ_wrestling said:

Schultz? The second best HW in the nation? Hahaha

I don't know where he lands as far as folkstyle goes. I did see him in the finals of the Doc Buchanan a couple years ago and it was a very close match between him and Seth Nevills. I can't remember if it was 3 - 2 or 4-3. That alone makes me think that people might be under estimating Seth. I know he just lost to Gas Tank Gary but it was on the road and it is his first year starting. I think the guy is going to make All-American a couple of times at least. That is assuming he's  the starter there or somewhere else

[ConnorsDad 596]

1 minute ago, malcolmJfromPA said:

Well PSU does have a tone in Redshirt.  Lee, Manville, Beard, Starocci and Kerkvielt.   Id say that is better then a team of 10 backups point wise in a tourney.

Good point. I didn't do a real deep dive into it I just kind of thought about who I knew was a backup and went from there. I'll admit I probably didn't think about the red shirts enough and they would certainly be up there.

[malcolmJfromPA 23]

As a PSU fan I am biased.  But I think Cornell and Michigan have some bullets in red shirt as well.  I think they even have more than PSU.   

[steamboat_charlie v2 1,174]

52 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

All that being said I will vote, or in my opinion, Iowa would be number one in both a dual and tournament setting with their backups. I look back a few years and even during Penn State's dominance I still found Iowa to be extremely close or even better if using only their second string wrestlers. I could be wrong as I didn't go incredibly deep but it surprised me about past teams considering the incredible recruiting classes Penn State has put together. Thoughts?

Iowa has historically done a nice job filling out their roster with slightly lower tier recruits in the 70 - 100 range.  Guys like Wilcke, Turk, Glazier, Cashman, Brands, Costello have all fallen somewhere in there, and they've been able to develop guys and keep them in the program.  

Taking a quick look at the top 10, if you exclude redshirts and injuries not many others can field a respectable lineup.  Ohio State can get pretty close but only if you use Hayes and Singletary.  Most have total holes in at least 2 or 3 weights.  

If we're counting redshirts, Michigan probably has about 65 tournament points on the bench right now. 

[Idaho 1,398]

1 hour ago, Sublime607 said:

Not really sure where the entire backup team stands but Arizona St might just have the second best HWT in the nation redshirting.

When you lose to Nevills of FSU I am going to go out on a limb and say you aren’t the second best in the country 

[klehner 755]

52 minutes ago, malcolmJfromPA said:

As a PSU fan I am biased.  But I think Cornell and Michigan have some bullets in red shirt as well.  I think they even have more than PSU.   

Cornell loses two current starters to graduation, and of the remaining starters either zero or one will be a starter next year (Darmstadt might have a battle on his hands).

Arujau, Yianni, and Dean in ORS; Greg D. and Josh Saunders to matriculate; Yapoujian to come out of medical; Ramirez, Foca, Cardenas, and Fernandes to come out of greyshirt.

[1032004 1,514]

In tournament scoring, if you're counting redshirts and grayshirts it's probably Cornell with Yianni, Vito, Dean, plus their grayshirts. 

In a dual I think I'd still go Iowa as they're probably stronger top to bottom and would also be getting Eierman.

[steamboat_charlie v2 1,174]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

In tournament scoring, if you're counting redshirts and grayshirts it's probably Cornell with Yianni, Vito, Dean, plus their grayshirts. 

In a dual I think I'd still go Iowa as they're probably stronger top to bottom and would also be getting Eierman.

Agreed if we're counting greys.  

Even if not I think Vito/Yianni/Dean have the slight edge over Micic/Massa/Amine, although it's pretty close.  

[nhs67 2,099]

Damn. Forgot about Cornell.

[TobusRex 2,108]

Are there B-team duals and such in D1? I remember in HS that the big schools (4A back then) would send their backups around wrestling smaller schools (A and 2A, mainly). They usually beat the A teams and most of the time were competitive with the 2A schools.