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buckshot1969

JV/Redshirt Matches

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Why I think they're a good idea for college duals:

-Let's fans see backups/redshirts compete on their home mat

-Gives backups who grind every day in the room a chance to be seen

-Gives big time redshirts a chance to get used to college duals

-Gives the fans more wrestling since duals tend to go by so fast

My stipulations would be that the matches aren't "official" and the kids shouldn't wear their team's singlet. They could even have a coach ref the matches. I'd also be cool with weigh ins not being official either, let kids wrestle and not have to worry about weight as long as they're close.

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I would rather schools begin to throw a freestyle match in at intermission (thinking RTC athletes) or even a women's match in there. Not saying other options aren't as good but I think with the prominence of women's wrestling and the growth of RTC's it could give the average "folkstyle" fan a little exposure to the other styles in our sport. 

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Division III does this numerous places and has for as long as I can remember. New England even has a "Futures" Tournament at the end of the season. D3 doesn't allow redshirts, so they're all eligible. 

I believe getting on the football "4 games" rule and preserving a redshirt is tailor-made for wrestling. 

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1 hour ago, JasonBryant said:

Division III does this numerous places and has for as long as I can remember. New England even has a "Futures" Tournament at the end of the season. D3 doesn't allow redshirts, so they're all eligible. 

I believe getting on the football "4 games" rule and preserving a redshirt is tailor-made for wrestling. 

Yes, a few D3 schools in Pennsylvania used to set up duals between the back ups, I always thought it was a great idea, I wish D1 would allow it but with the restrictions on how many guys you travel with and what not probably makes that tough to pull off 

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1 hour ago, JasonBryant said:

Division III does this numerous places and has for as long as I can remember. New England even has a "Futures" Tournament at the end of the season. D3 doesn't allow redshirts, so they're all eligible. 

I believe getting on the football "4 games" rule and preserving a redshirt is tailor-made for wrestling. 

I’ve been wanting this for a while. If you prorate it that would give a wrestler about 8-10 “varsity” matches he can compete in while still preserving his redshirt. I think this would be a huge improvement to college wrestling that just makes a lot of sense. 

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1 hour ago, LHU125 said:

I would rather schools begin to throw a freestyle match in at intermission (thinking RTC athletes) or even a women's match in there. Not saying other options aren't as good but I think with the prominence of women's wrestling and the growth of RTC's it could give the average "folkstyle" fan a little exposure to the other styles in our sport. 

Love it but may be logistically tricky to find competitors or a freestyle ref.  RTC athletes normally don't travel with the team and I'm not sure how keen inter-RTC matchups would be for the competitors.  But it could be boring since they know either other so well.  But why not give it a whirl

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13 minutes ago, mlbruem said:

4 matches per dual and they count.

I think they should count for guys that are not redshirting, but not for guys that are redshirting. Just like if the met at an open tournament.

13 minutes ago, goheels1812 said:

I’ve been wanting this for a while. If you prorate it that would give a wrestler about 8-10 “varsity” matches he can compete in while still preserving his redshirt. I think this would be a huge improvement to college wrestling that just makes a lot of sense. 

I don't know if it should be that high. You could have a redshirt basically wrestle the whole conference schedule if the starter was recovering from injury or you had someone going with a Snyder type schedule. Or if you have a blue-chipper like Mark Hall or Spencer Lee, they would be able to wrestle the whole big 10 schedule before the coach has to decide whether to pull the shirt or not. I don't think that would happen often, but the opportunity for abusing this rule would be there.

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When was the last time anyone saw a preliminary meet either JV or FRosh before a varsity dual, The preliminary either being between the same two teams or the visitors being a JC etc.

I remember some at Stabler, so the 80's at least. Is there still a plebe dual before Army Navy? )I doubt it)

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3 hours ago, RichB said:

When was the last time anyone saw a preliminary meet either JV or FRosh before a varsity dual, The preliminary either being between the same two teams or the visitors being a JC etc.

I remember some at Stabler, so the 80's at least. Is there still a plebe dual before Army Navy? )I doubt it)

I still see them at HS matches almost every time. It's not like when I was a kid where each team had a full JV team as well. Now you get 4-5 forfeits and maybe 2 JV matches. 

But there are some excellent ideas in here. Women's wrestling and freestyle exhibitions would be great.

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in the Harrisburg It is usually a Jr Hi meet, maybe with a couple JH exhibitions, Then maybe 2-5 JV matches Before the Varsity, And this is at all sizes of schools not just the AA schools, but the biggest ones Like CD, CC, CV, Chambersburg. Back in the late 80s thru 99 it was typically 2 mats for preliminaries, JR-HI on Mat A and almost full JVs on the other.

But I was getting at was in the 80's at Lehigh frequently there would be a JV meet on Mat A and a HS Varsity Dual on the other, But I feel that all stopped circa 1987.

  

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1 hour ago, Cptafw164 said:

I have seen many times “Jv” wrestlers going against each other before teams warm up for the main dual.  Doesn’t happen a lot now, I am guessing because of the refereeing, extra pay.  

are you talking NCAA D1 or HS or something in between?

 

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14 hours ago, buckshot1969 said:

-Let's fans see backups/redshirts compete on their home mat

-Gives backups who grind every day in the room a chance to be seen

-Gives big time redshirts a chance to get used to college duals

Most team's budgets are tight. $pending on airfare, accommodations and per diem for guys to get exhibition matches would be more trouble than it is worth.

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Are there NCAA regulations about this? I remember something like this at a Penn State Match (around 2002-2005) where there were a couple exhibition matches between backups and one of the service academy prep schools before the match. I agree that it would be good to see more of these.

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32 minutes ago, PSUSMC said:

Most team's budgets are tight. $pending on airfare, accommodations and per diem for guys to get exhibition matches would be more trouble than it is worth.

I’m not saying to bring an extra ten kids but if it makes sense and the team you’re wrestling has a guy at the right weight you bring 3 or 4 backups.

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12 hours ago, SetonHallPirate said:

Right...any rules that limit travel are conference rules, not NCAA rules. For example, the Big Ten limits teams to 13 wrestlers travelling if there's one dual in a weekend, 15 if there's two. But there is no overarching NCAA rule.

Thanks for the info.

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