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Did Ohio St lose opportunities for future by not using redshirt more?

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33 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Not a fan of medians in this situation.  They essentially "throw out" outliers as if they don't count.  But, in this situation they should and do.  You can't just cherry pick years and say they don't count when the topic itself is consistent finishes.  But, so everyone knows the median for PSU over that time frame would be 1.  The median for Iowa would be 3.  The median for tOSU would also be 3.

Now, what would OBVIOUSLY favor PSU IMMENSELY would be the average finish over the past 10 years.

PSU:  9,1,1,1,1,6,1,1,1,1=23/10=2.3

Iowa:  1,3,3,4,4,2,5,4,3,4=33/10=3.3

 

I was just messing with you.  Given the topic was consistency I agree avg makes sense. 

I know it's obvious, but it's still mind boggling that PSU's median finish at NCAA's over the past 13 seasons is 1st.  

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3 hours ago, Cruiser94 said:

This is a hot topic among posters on tOSU forums. Tom Ryan is famous for putting his best team on the mat. I remember the debate when he pulled Martin and Snyder's Red-shirt. They each ended up  winning the National Title, but the Buckeyes still finished second to an unbelievable PSU team. The debate is the Buckeyes could have won another title if he would have held on to those RS's. Ryan did RS NATO, BO as well as someone else that year and RS Micah the following. I know Pletcher would have benefited by a RS his freshman year but with an injury to Hayes he had to wrestle. Pletcher was a round of 12 guy up a weight and the move likely cost him the notoriety of being a 4X-AA.

This ventures into chicken & egg territory, and is totally unprovable,  but I don't think you get 4 years out of Snyder if he takes a redshirt.  May not have even gotten 2.  

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3 hours ago, Cruiser94 said:

This is a hot topic among posters on tOSU forums. Tom Ryan is famous for putting his best team on the mat. I remember the debate when he pulled Martin and Snyder's Red-shirt. They each ended up  winning the National Title, but the Buckeyes still finished second to an unbelievable PSU team. The debate is the Buckeyes could have won another title if he would have held on to those RS's. Ryan did RS NATO, BO as well as someone else that year and RS Micah the following. I know Pletcher would have benefited by a RS his freshman year but with an injury to Hayes he had to wrestle. Pletcher was a round of 12 guy up a weight and the move likely cost him the notoriety of being a 4X-AA.

No doubt Malik and Decatur would have benefited from a RS season. But, as was mentioned prior JD still has 3 more years and I could definitely see a RS in his future but time will tell. If Malik never gets above 130 lbs in thew next 6 years a RS would not help him. He is solid but undersized to say the least. 

Tom Ryan is every bit a top 5 head coach in D1 wrestling. I do not know how one even asks that question. The Buckeyes have knocked off PSU three times in the B1G Tournament in years the Nittany Lions won the NCAA tournament.  Along with his 2015 title the Buckeyes have been runner-up what seems like every year since 2007.

I don’t believe Snyder won it his first year.  2nd to Gasden.

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57 minutes ago, Sstern said:

I don’t believe Snyder won it his first year.  2nd to Gasden.

The following year I do believe Ryan pulled his ORS his sophomore year and he won the title. He wrestled as a true freshmen and knocked off J'Den Cox in the semi's before losing to Gasden trying a high risk move and got stuck.

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35 minutes ago, Cruiser94 said:

The following year I do believe Ryan pulled his ORS his sophomore year and he won the title. He wrestled as a true freshmen and knocked off J'Den Cox in the semi's before losing to Gasden trying a high risk move and got stuck.

Man, that is so inaccurate and does no justice to what Gadson(the actual correct spelling of his name) did in that match.  That was ALL Gadson!  The sequence takes place at 6:40 in the video below:

 

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Apparently my memory is awful. Totally going from what I recalled. Unfortunately, I cant watch the upload. looked it up on my phone.

But I am confident I was right about the point of my statement, which is Snyder wrestled as a true freshman. The following year both Myles Martin and Snyder's RS were pulled midway through the season.

Absolutely  messed that one up. Snyder in deep on a single leg and lost position then Gadson hits a nice inside trip to his back.

MSU- dude I mean no disrespect and I am not a troll. I go by my memory because I really don't feel like looking things up. I am sorry I cant nail down every thing that happens in NCAA wrestling over the last 20 years. There is a better way to prove your point than being negative. You easily could have said that it has been a few years but that is not an accurate account. 

 

Edited by Cruiser94

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19 hours ago, moose41 said:

I don’t know that there’s any rush for him to leave.  He has a redshirt and he’s in one of the top 3 training environments in the country.  Kerkvliet also has a redshirt and a history of knee injury as a heavyweight.   Why not stay and get better for at least a year practicing with Kerkvliet, Snyder, Sanderson and Varner.  Could be even better places to land after a year or two and he’ll be even better prepared.

He would be stupid to waste a year of his eligibility to sit the bench for a good training environment. If he wants to do that while in RS just in case Kerk blows his knee or something it's one thing but I'd think getting involved with his new team and a path forward would be better.  Besides that I'm not so sure how good it is for him to spend extra time getting his ass beat down in practice day after day., not exactly a confidence builder. 

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18 minutes ago, Cruiser94 said:

Apparently my memory is awful. Totally going from what I recalled. Unfortunately, I cant watch the upload. looked it up on my phone.

But I am confident I was right about the point of my statement, which is Snyder wrestled as a true freshman. The following year both Myles Martin and Snyder's RS were pulled midway through the season.

Absolutely  messed that one up. Snyder in deep on a single leg and lost position then Gadson hits a nice inside trip to his back.

MSU- dude I mean no disrespect and I am not a troll. I go by my memory because I really don't feel like looking things up. I am sorry I cant nail down every thing that happens in NCAA wrestling over the last 20 years. There is a better way to prove your point than being negative. You easily could have said that it has been a few years but that is not an accurate account. 

 

Sorry, it wasn't meant as a personal attack and was solely meant to do Gadson the justice he deserved.  Admittedly, mispelling his name set me off a bit, but it was still not meant to directly slam you.  I just happened to have the pleasure of speaking with his dad on several recruiting occasions.  He coached at nearby EMU at the time and really wanted my buddy much more than me.

Edited by MSU158

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7 minutes ago, BLT said:

He would be stupid to waste a year of his eligibility to sit the bench for a good training environment. If he wants to do that while in RS just in case Kerk blows his knee or something it's one thing but I'd think getting involved with his new team and a path forward would be better.  Besides that I'm not so sure how good it is for him to spend extra time getting his ass beat down in practice day after day., not exactly a confidence builder. 

I don’t think he should waste a year of eligibility sitting.  If Kerk is the guy next year he can redshirt if not Nevills wrestles.   

I don’t know what his goals are but I’m not gonna say it’s stupid to train with those guys.  Like I said he stays next year he doesn’t really lose anything.   

Where do you think he goes to get better?

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10 minutes ago, Cruiser94 said:

The individual i quoted misspelled it, I was copying his spelling as I responded.

Gotcha. Well.......shame on SStern as well!  But, remember "2 wrongs don't make a right" or, even better, "if he jumped off a bridge would you follow him?"

 

All in good fun!

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41 minutes ago, Cruiser94 said:

Apparently my memory is awful. Totally going from what I recalled. Unfortunately, I cant watch the upload. looked it up on my phone.

But I am confident I was right about the point of my statement, which is Snyder wrestled as a true freshman. The following year both Myles Martin and Snyder's RS were pulled midway through the season.

Absolutely  messed that one up. Snyder in deep on a single leg and lost position then Gadson hits a nice inside trip to his back.

MSU- dude I mean no disrespect and I am not a troll. I go by my memory because I really don't feel like looking things up. I am sorry I cant nail down every thing that happens in NCAA wrestling over the last 20 years. There is a better way to prove your point than being negative. You easily could have said that it has been a few years but that is not an accurate account. 

 

That was not an inside trip, but man Snyder does not fight at all when on his back.

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Back to OP.

Yes.  Buckeye fan here and here's what should have happened:

125 - Malik should have redshirted this year and lifted like NATO. 

133 - Decatur should have stayed in redshiet this year.

This would have had the Koontz Bros starting this season at each weight respectively.

141 - pletcher should have been able to redshirt at some point, like originally intended. 

184 - Hoffman needs to transfer out.  There's probably no room for him.

So... It seems as if the lightweights are a bit mismanaged while the rest of the weights are being more "well managed".

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Another big blow with Ohio State appears to be Anthony Echemendia being a long shot a best getting admitted to the Buckeyes and wrestling next year.

Just like J’Den Cox was Tom Ryan’s counter puncher to Snyder leaving relative to the ORTC, Echemendia was Ryan’s counter to losing Kerkvilet and like I said, appears now to be a long shot at this point.

Hope I’m hearing wrong. Would LOVE for someone to correct me if I am.

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