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shieldofpistis

Loser of Snyder vs. Cox

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13 hours ago, BTC said:

I said hes getting pinned cause hes gotten pinned a more than once. Most recently being less than two months ago. It's simply a fact, sorry if you dont like it. Snyder is a beast and his accomplishments are amazing but the fact is that he hasn't won worlds in two years and has looked to be on the decline. From what I dont know. My guess is hes been scouted thoroughly and has focused to much on his strength training instead of technique. Obviously it's not an age related issue. He looked absolutely outclassed against sadulaev and was getting beaten soundly before getting stuck against the Iranian who was coming off of a long suspension. Imo at this stage in his career he would get beaten soundly by the top heavies in the world. Not saying he cant or wont get back to the form he displayed early in his career but for now the results show that hes not that guy anymore. 

This is the mentality that kills this sport: the proverbial "if you're not first, you're last."

Saying he "is getting pinned" and "he has been pinned" are not the same things. To reiterate the point, Snyder has been pinned a grand total of two times in his entire six-plus year senior career to date. Once in September 2018, against the guy who is widely accepted as the greatest wrestler in Snyder's generation (who was at a different weight for 2015 and 2016), and once again 16 months later against a guy who was a world bronze medalist in Snyder's time, but, again, at another weight. If Snyder was being pinned every other tournament by guys from New Zealand, Yemen, Uruguay or Sebia, I'd understand your point. However, you're talking about a 24-year-old guy (Snyder) who has medaled in all but two of the senior level tournaments he has entered to date. Stating that he has been pinned two times in more than six years of conpetition doesn't support your argument. Does Sadulaev being put on his back by the Turk at Euros a week ago mean he looks "to be on the decline"? No, it just means that the competition is beyond anything any of us can comprehend and scouting exploits weak spots in EVERYONE'S game.

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14 minutes ago, Tofurky said:

This is the mentality that kills this sport: the proverbial "if you're not first, you're last."

Saying he "is getting pinned" and "he has been pinned" are not the same things. To reiterate the point, Snyder has been pinned a grand total of two times in his entire six-plus year senior career to date. Once in September 2018, against the guy who is widely accepted as the greatest wrestler in Snyder's generation (who was at a different weight for 2015 and 2016), and once again 16 months later against a guy who was a world bronze medalist in Snyder's time, but, again, at another weight. If Snyder was being pinned every other tournament by guys from New Zealand, Yemen, Uruguay or Sebia, I'd understand your point. However, you're talking about a 24-year-old guy (Snyder) who has medaled in all but two of the senior level tournaments he has entered to date. Stating that he has been pinned two times in more than six years of conpetition doesn't support your argument. Does Sadulaev being put on his back by the Turk at Euros a week ago mean he looks "to be on the decline"? No, it just means that the competition is beyond anything any of us can comprehend and scouting exploits weak spots in EVERYONE'S game.

No, I'm telling you what my meaning behind what I said was. You dont get to change it just because you dont like it. I dont know why you seem so upset at the fact that he has indeed gotten pinned by guys in his own weight class, facts are facts. You bringing up sadulaev being in a lighter weight class those two years only strengthens my point. Snyder was dominated by a smaller guy. Sadulaev was the lighter wrestler on both occasions. Then he beaten soundly by a bronze medalist who was coming off a multi year suspension. Like I've said before it's my opinion that snyder would get beaten soundly and not medal at heavyweight. Dont get butthurt over someone's opinion. 

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26 minutes ago, Tofurky said:

This is the mentality that kills this sport: the proverbial "if you're not first, you're last."

Saying he "is getting pinned" and "he has been pinned" are not the same things. To reiterate the point, Snyder has been pinned a grand total of two times in his entire six-plus year senior career to date. Once in September 2018, against the guy who is widely accepted as the greatest wrestler in Snyder's generation (who was at a different weight for 2015 and 2016), and once again 16 months later against a guy who was a world bronze medalist in Snyder's time, but, again, at another weight. If Snyder was being pinned every other tournament by guys from New Zealand, Yemen, Uruguay or Sebia, I'd understand your point. However, you're talking about a 24-year-old guy (Snyder) who has medaled in all but two of the senior level tournaments he has entered to date. Stating that he has been pinned two times in more than six years of conpetition doesn't support your argument. Does Sadulaev being put on his back by the Turk at Euros a week ago mean he looks "to be on the decline"? No, it just means that the competition is beyond anything any of us can comprehend and scouting exploits weak spots in EVERYONE'S game.

I agree with you one 100%.  Snyder has already had an amazing career, and dominated his weight class for a good 2-3 years.  His weight class has become very competitive, and one of Snyder's weaknesses has been exposed, which is he is not good in an area which he has very little experience in, being on his back.

I am sure he will work very hard on that, so even if he does get stuck on his back again, he will do a far better job of fighting it

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35 minutes ago, irani said:

...

I am sure he will work very hard on that, so even if he does get stuck on his back again, he will do a far better job of fighting it

I think he looses every match that he is put on his back. 

He does not have the par terre or high scoring moves from his feet

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2 hours ago, BTC said:

No, I'm telling you what my meaning behind what I said was. You dont get to change it just because you dont like it. I dont know why you seem so upset at the fact that he has indeed gotten pinned by guys in his own weight class, facts are facts. You bringing up sadulaev being in a lighter weight class those two years only strengthens my point. Snyder was dominated by a smaller guy. Sadulaev was the lighter wrestler on both occasions. Then he beaten soundly by a bronze medalist who was coming off a multi year suspension. Like I've said before it's my opinion that snyder would get beaten soundly and not medal at heavyweight. Dont get butthurt over someone's opinion. 

It's funny that you, random person on the internet, have convinced yourself that you evoke emotion from me, someone you don't know at all. You don't. It's very common for people to discuss things without emotional attachment. "Facts are facts..." or so I hear.

As to your assertion that I am somehow "butthurt" by not agreeing with you: fact-try harder than that, nameless, faceless internet persona.

To the argument, Sadulaev being lighter than Snyder has no bearing on whether Snyder would do well at heavyweight or not. You cited above that Sadulaev was smaller than Snyder when Sads pinned him. Why could the same not be true for Snyder? Is there some secret Sads holds that Snyder is not privy to?

Snyder wasn't being "dominated" when he was pinned in that match. As we all know, Sadulaev used a really odd technique to score a takedown and turn, where he moved right into the fall, all in the same sequence. The match lasted 1:10, and the sequence to the pin lasted 35 seconds, where the match was 2-0 when the fall was called. I read this saying on the internet. I think it goes something like this: "facts are facts."

As to the Iranian, you're making it sound as if this was some old man tournament, and after four years "off", the dude rolled off a sofa in his mom's basement, bowled through his pyramid of empty Natty Light cans, while knocking over his hydroponic grow lab, just to whip up on a guy who has three golds, a silver, and bronze to his name in his last five World and Olympic events. Mohammadian had already proved he was among the best in the world. To suggest he waltzed in off the streets after four years is pretty ignorant to what he's been up to with his wrestling.

You're clearly hung up on Snyder being pinned twice in six-plus years. I'm sure he is very sorry that he is not living up to your expectations of him as a fan, and that, at 24, you feel he's a has been. Try his Instagram. You might be able to reach him directly through there with your concerns and suggestions.

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52 minutes ago, Tofurky said:

It's funny that you, random person on the internet, have convinced yourself that you evoke emotion from me, someone you don't know at all. You don't. It's very common for people to discuss things without emotional attachment. "Facts are facts..." or so I hear.

As to your assertion that I am somehow "butthurt" by not agreeing with you: fact-try harder than that, nameless, faceless internet persona.

To the argument, Sadulaev being lighter than Snyder has no bearing on whether Snyder would do well at heavyweight or not. You cited above that Sadulaev was smaller than Snyder when Sads pinned him. Why could the same not be true for Snyder? Is there some secret Sads holds that Snyder is not privy to?

Snyder wasn't being "dominated" when he was pinned in that match. As we all know, Sadulaev used a really odd technique to score a takedown and turn, where he moved right into the fall, all in the same sequence. The match lasted 1:10, and the sequence to the pin lasted 35 seconds, where the match was 2-0 when the fall was called. I read this saying on the internet. I think it goes something like this: "facts are facts."

As to the Iranian, you're making it sound as if this was some old man tournament, and after four years "off", the dude rolled off a sofa in his mom's basement, bowled through his pyramid of empty Natty Light cans, while knocking over his hydroponic grow lab, just to whip up on a guy who has three golds, a silver, and bronze to his name in his last five World and Olympic events. Mohammadian had already proved he was among the best in the world. To suggest he waltzed in off the streets after four years is pretty ignorant to what he's been up to with his wrestling.

You're clearly hung up on Snyder being pinned twice in six-plus years. I'm sure he is very sorry that he is not living up to your expectations of him as a fan, and that, at 24, you feel he's a has been. Try his Instagram. You might be able to reach him directly through there with your concerns and suggestions.

I quit reading after the first paragraph, but that’s a pretty lengthy response trying to convince someone that they don’t evoke emotion from you.

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3 hours ago, Tofurky said:

It's funny that you, random person on the internet, have convinced yourself that you evoke emotion from me, someone you don't know at all. You don't. It's very common for people to discuss things without emotional attachment. "Facts are facts..." or so I hear.

As to your assertion that I am somehow "butthurt" by not agreeing with you: fact-try harder than that, nameless, faceless internet persona.

To the argument, Sadulaev being lighter than Snyder has no bearing on whether Snyder would do well at heavyweight or not. You cited above that Sadulaev was smaller than Snyder when Sads pinned him. Why could the same not be true for Snyder? Is there some secret Sads holds that Snyder is not privy to?

Snyder wasn't being "dominated" when he was pinned in that match. As we all know, Sadulaev used a really odd technique to score a takedown and turn, where he moved right into the fall, all in the same sequence. The match lasted 1:10, and the sequence to the pin lasted 35 seconds, where the match was 2-0 when the fall was called. I read this saying on the internet. I think it goes something like this: "facts are facts."

As to the Iranian, you're making it sound as if this was some old man tournament, and after four years "off", the dude rolled off a sofa in his mom's basement, bowled through his pyramid of empty Natty Light cans, while knocking over his hydroponic grow lab, just to whip up on a guy who has three golds, a silver, and bronze to his name in his last five World and Olympic events. Mohammadian had already proved he was among the best in the world. To suggest he waltzed in off the streets after four years is pretty ignorant to what he's been up to with his wrestling.

Lol if losing a match in 1:10 seconds, not having a point to your credit and being on your back for half the time doesn't constitute as being dominated then idk what domination is. You call it an odd technique and I just call it technique. As far as Mohammadian goes if I wanted it to sound like all that BS you spouted off I would have simply said it. Instead I said that he was beaten soundly by a guy who was was inactive in world competition for years. You cant seem to be able to look past snyder's past accomplishments long enough to see that he hasn't been in the same form as he has been in the past. However he is talented enough to still be a perennial medal threat and could regain his form from years past. 

"I'm sure he is very sorry that he is not living up to your expectations of him as a fan, and that, at 24, you feel he's a has been. Try his Instagram. You might be able to reach him directly through there with your concerns and suggestions"

Nonsense that I would expect an emotionally charged person to say. 

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8 hours ago, BTC said:

Lol if losing a match in 1:10 seconds, not having a point to your credit and being on your back for half the time doesn't constitute as being dominated then idk what domination is. You call it an odd technique and I just call it technique. As far as Mohammadian goes if I wanted it to sound like all that BS you spouted off I would have simply said it. Instead I said that he was beaten soundly by a guy who was was inactive in world competition for years. You cant seem to be able to look past snyder's past accomplishments long enough to see that he hasn't been in the same form as he has been in the past. However he is talented enough to still be a perennial medal threat and could regain his form from years past. 

"I'm sure he is very sorry that he is not living up to your expectations of him as a fan, and that, at 24, you feel he's a has been. Try his Instagram. You might be able to reach him directly through there with your concerns and suggestions"

Nonsense that I would expect an emotionally charged person to say. 

When you've convinced yourself that you're right about a person you don't know or a discussion you're having before a reply, it's easiest to just stick to your argument. You're doing great.

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I quit reading after the first paragraph, but that’s a pretty lengthy response trying to convince someone that they don’t evoke emotion from you.
Hahahaha so true... I read the first sentence and was like, christ how much emotion did this guy not get out of you...
:) loved it

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2 hours ago, Tofurky said:

When you've convinced yourself that you're right about a person you don't know or a discussion you're having before a reply, it's easiest to just stick to your argument. You're doing great.

Means a lot coming from you. 

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On 2/23/2020 at 9:24 PM, Mokoma said:

I quit reading after the first paragraph, but that’s a pretty lengthy response trying to convince someone that they don’t evoke emotion from you.

It was actually a pretty well written rebuttal.  And I'm not a huge Snyder fan.

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On 2/20/2020 at 6:08 PM, shieldofpistis said:

Is it possible for the loser of Snyder vs Cox to try out for the heavyweight spot? I understand they may not place at heavyweight, but still it would be better to go to the olympics at heavyweight than not go at all.  Or will the two weight classes be at the same time so the loser won't have time to enter the heavyweight trials?

Not this crap, again. :)

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On 2/20/2020 at 6:58 PM, BTC said:

It's crazy how people think Snyder or Cox or anyone else whos not a heavy for that matter can just step right up and seriously contend with the best in the world or even the US for that matter. Snyder is getting pinned by guys his size for crying out loud.

Snyder would probably make the national team and maybe win the spot. 
  
Snyder beat Gwiz, albeit in folk, just before Gwiz won world bronze

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5 hours ago, Housebuye said:

Snyder would probably make the national team and maybe win the spot. 
  
Snyder beat Gwiz, albeit in folk, just before Gwiz won world bronze

Just before? You mean a year and a half before? 
 

Snyder has done absolutely nothing to suggest he is a top HW, domestic or international. He was barely scraping by Coon, who Gable walked over the last two times they met. 

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34 minutes ago, AZ_wrestling said:

Just before? You mean a year and a half before? 
 

Snyder has done absolutely nothing to suggest he is a top HW, domestic or international. He was barely scraping by Coon, who Gable walked over the last two times they met. 

Gable got walked over by Coon when Snyder and coon were having their folk rivalry. 
  
coon then started focusing on Greco  and Gable got better. It was a year or two later before Gable beat coon

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32 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Gable got walked over by Coon when Snyder and coon were having their folk rivalry. 
  
coon then started focusing on Greco  and Gable got better. It was a year or two later before Gable beat coon

I’d say Snyder’s matches with Coon last year are more relevant and telling than his match with Gwiz in 2016. I’d also argue it’s far more likely Gable got a whole lot better in than year than it is Coon regressed. Recall Gable also flipped the scores on his Nelson matches that were only a year apart. Even Mason Parris has more relevant wins than Snyder for 125. 

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13 minutes ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

This really isn’t a legitimate topic. It’s not happening so why is this even a discussion. I’m still picking Snyder over Cox, I’m thinking Snyder is going to wear him out. 

Very possible

it definitely isn’t happening (Snyder at 125) Just fun to talk about 

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Speaking of the loser of this match. Ig Jden was to beat Snyderman and place well if not win the Olympics, does he become the mainstay at 97kg and if that scenario were to play out, could you see Snyder dropping down to 92kg.

That's been on my mind today.

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On 2/23/2020 at 3:56 PM, Tofurky said:

This is the mentality that kills this sport: the proverbial "if you're not first, you're last."

Saying he "is getting pinned" and "he has been pinned" are not the same things. To reiterate the point, Snyder has been pinned a grand total of two times in his entire six-plus year senior career to date. Once in September 2018, against the guy who is widely accepted as the greatest wrestler in Snyder's generation (who was at a different weight for 2015 and 2016), and once again 16 months later against a guy who was a world bronze medalist in Snyder's time, but, again, at another weight. If Snyder was being pinned every other tournament by guys from New Zealand, Yemen, Uruguay or Sebia, I'd understand your point. However, you're talking about a 24-year-old guy (Snyder) who has medaled in all but two of the senior level tournaments he has entered to date. Stating that he has been pinned two times in more than six years of conpetition doesn't support your argument. Does Sadulaev being put on his back by the Turk at Euros a week ago mean he looks "to be on the decline"? No, it just means that the competition is beyond anything any of us can comprehend and scouting exploits weak spots in EVERYONE'S game.

you keep saying he's been 2x in his 6+ year career.  While that is true, I think it is more telling that it is actually 2x in the last 16 months.  I think Snyder, while still a medal threat, is not the same.  I think he is too muscular and looks stiff/slow on the mat compared to the other elite guys at his weight.  I think Cox's athleticism will be the difference in this match up.

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1 hour ago, Bozak2018 said:

you keep saying he's been 2x in his 6+ year career.  While that is true, I think it is more telling that it is actually 2x in the last 16 months.  I think Snyder, while still a medal threat, is not the same.  I think he is too muscular and looks stiff/slow on the mat compared to the other elite guys at his weight.  I think Cox's athleticism will be the difference in this match up.

I don't think Snyder himself is any different. He wasn't terribly fluid early on and then lost that over time. To me, he's just been scouted better by a lot of countries and meeting better prepared competition, in the same way that the Turk put Sadulaev to his back twice at Euros a few weeks ago.

Again, Snyder wasnt pinned by reps from Iceland and Tonga. He was pinned once each, more than a year apart by bonafide studs at 97 kgs. I'm not worried about him.

As to Cox, I suspect he's the Olympic rep. That said, if it's Snyder, the U.S. is in medal contention either way.

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