Iowa St. Open (merged topic)

[Plasmodium 1,698]

Fair to say Dresser is acting like an orange in this respect?

[dakotajudo 8]

4 hours ago, buf87 said:

I believe Sebastian of Wisconsin was Coleman’s 2nd round guys.  Other side had a couple Iowa State guys, 2 SDSU guys & a Minnesota guys.  All lost to Iowa State guys

If I'm reading the bracket correctly, Schoon from SDSU had a bye in the first round, then met Broderson from ISU in the second round. The result is listed as Schoon Inj 0:00.

Schoon did lose by decision in the third round to Battani from ISU; Battani then lost to Coleman by Inj 0:02.  Schoon, on the back side, wrestled team mate Orris, who had advanced in the consolations with a MFF from Sebastian of Wisc. He then lost to Steffen from Minn in the third place match.

Steffen, on his way to third, last to Battani, then received a MFF from Broderson (who advanced on a MFF from Stotts of ISU), then pinned Long of ISU (who entered the consolation round after losing to Coleman by Inj. 0:01. Long then FF to give Orris 5th).

 

All told, it looks like Schoon drove the 4-5 hours to Ames for three matches, going 1-2 and placing 4th in a 9-man bracket. Orris got two matches, went 1-1 for 5th. The SDSU coaches make an effort to get their back-ups matches during the season, I expect they're not particularly happy about this.

 

Battani and Long of ISU both wrestled two matches each, Steffen of Minn wrestled three. I'm counting 6 matches total in a bracket with 9 entrants, with 5 Inj and 3 MFF. The 5 wrestlers who did compete would have been better served to have been given a 5-man round-robin.

[VakAttack 3,132]

Looks like Dresser will be on FRL on Tuesday.  REALLY interested to hear his defense.

[buf87 79]

1 hour ago, dakotajudo said:

If I'm reading the bracket correctly, Schoon from SDSU had a bye in the first round, then met Broderson from ISU in the second round. The result is listed as Schoon Inj 0:00.

Schoon did lose by decision in the third round to Battani from ISU; Battani then lost to Coleman by Inj 0:02.  Schoon, on the back side, wrestled team mate Orris, who had advanced in the consolations with a MFF from Sebastian of Wisc. He then lost to Steffen from Minn in the third place match.

Steffen, on his way to third, last to Battani, then received a MFF from Broderson (who advanced on a MFF from Stotts of ISU), then pinned Long of ISU (who entered the consolation round after losing to Coleman by Inj. 0:01. Long then FF to give Orris 5th).

 

All told, it looks like Schoon drove the 4-5 hours to Ames for three matches, going 1-2 and placing 4th in a 9-man bracket. Orris got two matches, went 1-1 for 5th. The SDSU coaches make an effort to get their back-ups matches during the season, I expect they're not particularly happy about this.

 

Battani and Long of ISU both wrestled two matches each, Steffen of Minn wrestled three. I'm counting 6 matches total in a bracket with 9 entrants, with 5 Inj and 3 MFF. The 5 wrestlers who did compete would have been better served to have been given a 5-man round-robin.

Long beat Orris, then Long defaulted to Coleman.

 

[calot 205]

8 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Looks like Dresser will be on FRL on Tuesday.  REALLY interested to hear his defense.

He's gonna say we don't make the rules.The NCAA 15 matches for RPI is to many.Hes gonna say Coleman was 174 but couldn't make the weight anymore so he moved up.And say he shouldn't be punished because he outgrew his weight class.He needed his 15 matches at 184 so we used the rules to get him his matches.He will say it all with a smirk and present it like everyone is stupid for questioning him.Wonder if he calls in on Echemendia old cellphone or his own.

[1032004 941]

13 hours ago, Housebuye said:

Sure the rule he broke if you send an email saying they be punished  

punishing people is only appropriate if rules have been broken and can be proven. 
  

What dresser did was a bit shady. This isn’t about defending him. 

It’s match-fixing isn’t it?  At least an ethics violation.  He basically forced his own guys to add a loss to their records.

[nom 984]

From the details above, it does look like an NCAA investigation is warranted and it definitely looks like punishments should be considered.  Very curious to hear the defense.  I expect it will be like ‘well, Coach X had his wrestler default to another guy on the team once, that’s all I did.  No biggie.’

Perhaps rule changes are needed - like matches against a teammate do not count toward certain criteria.

[1032004 941]

26 minutes ago, nom said:

From the details above, it does look like an NCAA investigation is warranted and it definitely looks like punishments should be considered.  Very curious to hear the defense.  I expect it will be like ‘well, Coach X had his wrestler default to another guy on the team once, that’s all I did.  No biggie.’

Perhaps rule changes are needed - like matches against a teammate do not count toward certain criteria.

Yea.  I also think winning % needs to be removed as a seeding criteria for NCAA’s.  It really means nothing when comparing wrestlers from different conferences anyway.

[Housebuye 2,225]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

It’s match-fixing isn’t it?  At least an ethics violation.  He basically forced his own guys to add a loss to their records.

I’m saying to site the rule when emailing them. If you email rules people without that, they will delete it

[Housebuye 2,225]

1 hour ago, calot said:

He's gonna say we don't make the rules.The NCAA 15 matches for RPI is to many.Hes gonna say Coleman was 174 but couldn't make the weight anymore so he moved up.And say he shouldn't be punished because he outgrew his weight class.He needed his 15 matches at 184 so we used the rules to get him his matches.He will say it all with a smirk and present it like everyone is stupid for questioning him.Wonder if he calls in on Echemendia old cellphone or his own.

What’s the echemedia cell phone thing?

[ConnorsDad 596]

As if it wasn't bad enough all those guys who injury defaulted out or some of them then wrestled in the dual yesterday at home for Iowa State. What a low-class piece of ****!

[VakAttack 3,132]

He's gonna say we don't make the rules.The NCAA 15 matches for RPI is to many.Hes gonna say Coleman was 174 but couldn't make the weight anymore so he moved up.And say he shouldn't be punished because he outgrew his weight class.He needed his 15 matches at 184 so we used the rules to get him his matches.He will say it all with a smirk and present it like everyone is stupid for questioning him.Wonder if he calls in on Echemendia old cellphone or his own.

This will be...tough to stomach from the Prince of Honor and Oranges.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[xander 346]

I know a lady who went to HS with Dresser and when he took the ISU job she mentioned he was a total ass even then.

A lot of people I went to HS with in Sheldon Iowa think I am an ass. Same with a lot of my college classmates in Ames (regardless of gender). It’s hard to meet expectations of everyone.

Ethics & opinions are grey areas. Like @$$holes. We all have one. Clear rule violations are binary yes no pass fail. Behaviors are grey areas subject to criticism.

Do I support what has been alleged? No. Goes against my personal work ethic and fundamental principals. But I think it’s in the grey areas not binary.

But any conflict between 2 parties has 4 sides to evaluate - each party says some things and chooses not to say some things. One always end up rendering opinions on like 50% of data - 2 of 4 sides. Ya never get, in my leadership experience , more than 66% of data.

I graduated from isu in 80’s - some great teams back then. I always hoped I would get to see “us” win another national team championship. Came close Cael’s sophomore year I think. Had 4 in finals I think. Missed opportunity. We lost every single head to head match with the hawks that tournament. That was my last ncaa tournament I was at. Team titles have always been in a group of selected few. Isu was once in that group of which we are no longer a card carrying member. The criteria to stay in that even smaller group is quite robust in 2020. Maybe only 3 or 4 members. The rest of us are all practice take down dummies

[Pinnum 799]

21 hours ago, justafan said:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/2018/04/24/why-tennessee-state-womens-tennis-played-arkansas-six-times-sec/544909002/

 

Just saw this posted on the Iowa boards.Interesting 

A few points to make here...

While what Arkansas did might seem a little shady in scheduling six matches against one other D1 team late in the season, they played an outside team who actually tried to beat Arkansas.  It was a legitimate contest against another school that were each trying to win.  Yes, everyone knew that TSU was going to be outmatched.  But it is no different than when Alabama football schedules The Citadel.  Presumably they paid TSU very well to come out and play those matches.  So TSU saw it as a fundraiser.  But it was a legitimate contest where each side tried to win.

Iowa State could have paid Sacred Heart to fly out for some duals.  It would have been the same as what Arkansas did.  And maybe ISU's athletes would have won all the matches, or maybe they wouldn't have.

And it should be noted that multiple contests against the same school is actually common in Tennis. 

Look at TSU's schedule for the season and see that TSU also played Mississippi Valley State six times.  http://www.tsutigers.com/wtennis/schedule/2017-18/

Also, this was done for the team qualification (think of it like if the NCAA held a dual championship for wrestling and you needed to beat other D1 teams to get in to the NCAA dual championship).  This was not about the individuals getting wins but about the team getting wins.

Arkansas individuals did take losses on the day.  (See Results below)

 

 

University of Arkansas 4, Tennessee State University 3

http://cdn.streamlinetechnologies.com/tsutigers/51743D7A-F28B-40BF-B188-F92E01206D3D/wTSU29ARK.pdf

 

1. OPARENOVIC, Ana (ARKANSAS) def. KAKKAR, Aarushi (TSUW) 6-0, 6-1

2. CEPELYTE, Agne (ARKANSAS) def. POPIASHVILI, Ani (TSUW) 1-0, retired

3. CAGE, Morgan (TSUW) def. CARR, Jackie (ARKANSAS), by default

4. VISHWANATH, A (TSUW) def. JENNINGS, Peyton (ARKANSAS) 3-6, 7-5, 4-0, retired

5. JONES, Ashia (TSUW) def. PRABAKAR, Shwetha (ARKANSAS) 6-2, 4-6, 6-2

6. OLAYA, Myrna (ARKANSAS) def. JONES, Lydia (TSUW) 6-0, 6-0

Doubles competition

1. OPARENOVIC, Ana/PRABAKAR, Shwetha (ARKANSAS) def. JONES, Lydia/JONES, Ashia (TSUW) 6-2

2. VISHWANATH, A/POPIASHVILI, Ani (TSUW) def. OLAYA, Myrna/CEPELYTE, Agne (ARKANSAS), by default

3. RICE, Tatum/CARR, Jackie (ARKANSAS) def. CAGE, Morgan/NATRAJ, Pragati (TSUW), by default

 

[Pinnum 799]

I would also like to add...

I have thought for many years that wrestling's rules are ripe for gaming the system. 

I did a lot of research on the rules and the athletes and believe that I found a way that a program could contend for a national championship as a result of exploiting the flaws in the design of the college wrestling system.

Frankly, I have been surprised how limited it has been.  It really is a poor system all around.  I have read through the rulebooks many times over the years and looked at what I believe are real reforms that are needed.  But it isn't politically popular when everyone has their own incentives to product.

[funnyfletcher 30]

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/sports/college/iowa-state/wrestling/2020/02/24/wrestling-iowa-state-coach-kevin-dresser-explains-controversy-last-chance-open/4862592002/

[TobusRex 2,016]

On 2/23/2020 at 3:35 AM, goheels1812 said:

Pretty disrespectful for the sport, the fans, and especially to Missouri to only send half a team to a dual meet. And then to make it even worse Dresser can’t be bothered for himself or Metcalf to make it because they are busy cheating the system to get some of their varsity guys wins. Embarrassing for the sport and for Iowa States program. I’m glad it’s being talked about here and I’m sure other coaches around the NCAA are taking notice as well. 

What bothers me is who is minding the shop for the 5 boys who traveled to Mizzou? What if somebody gets hurt? How would Dresser explain he wasn't there when his boy was hurt at an official dual?

[malcolmJfromPA 23]

Looks like it backfired for Joe Smith since he took an L there.

[TobusRex 2,016]

How about this: inj defaults in a match with no score should be ruled "no contest", and not help RPI whatsoever.

[TobusRex 2,016]

4 minutes ago, malcolmJfromPA said:

Looks like it backfired for Joe Smith since he took an L there.

He lost to some tacos, allegedly

[1032004 941]

8 hours ago, Pinnum said:

 

I did a lot of research on the rules and the athletes and believe that I found a way that a program could contend for a national championship as a result of exploiting the flaws in the design of the college wrestling system.

So you’re not gonna tell us what it is?

[Force118 150]

8 hours ago, Pinnum said:

 

I did a lot of research on the rules and the athletes and believe that I found a way that a program could contend for a national championship as a result of exploiting the flaws in the design of the college wrestling system.
 

I know I’m new but how come nobody told me Cael posts on here?

 

[RavishingRickRude 15]

2 hours ago, funnyfletcher said:

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/sports/college/iowa-state/wrestling/2020/02/24/wrestling-iowa-state-coach-kevin-dresser-explains-controversy-last-chance-open/4862592002/

Summary: “My job is to get the most wrestlers to the national tournament and I did it within the rules. Have a problem? Change the rules.”

[TobusRex 2,016]

1 hour ago, Force118 said:

I know I’m new but how come nobody told me Cael posts on here?

 

Carl doesn't know how to read or write, so it's not him.

[TobusRex 2,016]

30 minutes ago, RavishingRickRude said:

Summary: “My job is to get the most wrestlers to the national tournament and I did it within the rules. Have a problem? Change the rules.”

He's right. Dresser used the rules to help his guys. Sleazy, but not "illegal". It's technically a very smart coaching move, but I don't like it one bit.