Fantasy Matchup Dan Hodge vs. Cael Sanderson

[fadzaev2 549]

I was following the Uetake vs Lee thread, and all the debate, so I thought, what would be another good matchup from an early era to close to the present, although Cael's career ended a while ago.   Beside technique, training methods and more, the difference in number of matches alone is huge.....Hodge 46-0 over 3 years/undefeated/pinned in the finals all 3 years.  Cael was 39-0/40-0/40-0/40-0...159-0 total .....OW all 4 years.  I'm going to add some international results as well for both of them....CAEL....  Silver @ 2003 World Championships, Gold @ 2004 Olympics and 5th @ 2011 World Championships.        HODGE......Going into May 1956 wrestling trials for US Olympic team, Hodge was middleweight favorite. He was eliminated on May 2 by William Smith. Smith was embroiled in controversy with the Central AAU and Hodge was his substitute.^[2] After two Olympics appearances, Hodge placed 5th in 1952, and won the Silver Medal in 1956, in Melbourne, Australia after being defeated at the final by Bulgarian Nikola Stanchev.

Edited February 24, 2020 by fadzaev2

[treep2000 1,152]

Eras are super tough to compare.  

Based on that... I will have to defer to one immutable truth in that strength training and nutrition is/was better during Cael's career than during Hodge's career.  

Given this, and considering that it's effectively impossible to compare the other facets directly, I lean (every so lightly) Cael.  

[TobusRex 2,108]

Hodge by pin in under 2 minutes. 

Seriously I bet Hodge would look at Carl like he was an idiot with the first ankle grab :D 

[WillieBoy 713]

To quote Bobby Douglas when asked this one a number of years back when Cael was Assistant Coach: "Cael would win, he's too fast for him".

I think Douglas calls it right.

[Gopher82 33]

We all know Cael lost a match is redshirt year. Hodge for the win. 

[Mokoma 326]

1 hour ago, Gopher82 said:

We all know Cael lost a match is redshirt year. Hodge for the win. 

Wasn't Hodge like 20 lbs lighter?  I take Cael in this one.

[olddirty 347]

Watch video of these guys in the early 60s and earlier, then watch an average high school state championship match in todays era.  There is your answer

[TobusRex 2,108]

Greco I'd favor Hodge, everything else Carl

[Mokoma 326]

10 minutes ago, olddirty said:

Watch video of these guys in the early 60s and earlier, then watch an average high school state championship match in todays era.  There is your answer

Oh boy, don’t look at the Uetake vs Lee thread....

[ExBSUfan 59]

27 minutes ago, olddirty said:

Watch video of these guys in the early 60s and earlier, then watch an average high school state championship match in todays era.  There is your answer

Well put.

[GoNotQuietly 1,175]

Cael by 10. Hodge paved the way, but there is no chance he could scrap with guys now without training in this era.  Strength & Conditioning and wrestling technique have improved vastly

[TobusRex 2,108]

I think the thing people need to understand is that technique is fluid. It changes over time as the sport is further refined. Hodge would've had benefit of today's knowledge/technique if he wrestled today, but since we never got to see him use today's tactics and we are aware of Cael's mastery, it's all conjecture. However physically Hodge was far more powerful than Cael. He simply overpowered everybody he wrestled with brute strength (although by the standards of the day his technique was good).  Hell, Danny Hodge is around 80 years old and still crushing apples with that ridiculous grip.

Edited February 25, 2020 by TobusRex

[Mphillips 1,829]

I was at a tourney in the 80's that had Hodge and Curt Haywood.  Hodge crushed apples and Haywood tore phone books in half.

[ionel 2,749]

1 hour ago, olddirty said:

Watch video of these guys in the early 60s and earlier, then watch an average high school state championship match in todays era.  There is your answer

Watch video of Hodge chrushing an apple and then think of Hodge doing the same to one of Cael favored jewels, there is your answer. ;)

Seriously, for any who saw Cael up close and live, he was just one fluid continual motion machine, afraid Dan would never be able to grab hold.  

[Cptafw164 130]

This is absurd.  Hodge would get pinned or teched.  You take last years NCAA champs and put them against champs from 2000, there would be multiple major decisions and tech falls.

here is another one, if Tom Martucci was a 197 for TCNJ this year, would he win the DI tournament?  Actually, what DIII champs could have won DI NCAAs in the last 20 years?  BETTER YET, if last years DI champs had a dual against last years DIII champs, what weights would NOT end up in a major, tech or pin?  
 

Hodge v Cael is like asking if Vince Lombardi’s Super Bowl champ packers played the Super bowl champ chiefs, who would win?  I say the chiefs score 30 touchdowns and the packers have over a hundred negative yards in the worst game of football ever played.   

Edited February 25, 2020 by Cptafw164

[shieldofpistis 156]

14 minutes ago, Cptafw164 said:

This is absurd.  Hodge would get pinned or teched.  You take last years NCAA champs and put them against champs from 2000, there would be multiple major decisions and tech falls.

here is another one, if Tom Martucci was a 197 for TCNJ this year, would he win the DI tournament?  Actually, what DIII champs could have won DI NCAAs in the last 20 years?  BETTER YET, if last years DI champs had a dual against last years DIII champs, what weights would NOT end up in a major, tech or pin?  
 

Hodge v Cael is like asking if Vince Lombardi’s Super Bowl champ packers played the Super bowl champ chiefs, who would win?  I say the chiefs score 30 touchdowns and the packers have over a hundred negative yards in the worst game of football ever played.   

Fight sports are a little different.  For example, the boxing heavyweights of the 60's, 70's, and mid 80's are better than American heavyweight boxers today.  

You think time will help someone deal with Marciano's double left hook?

[Mphillips 1,829]

2 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

Fight sports are a little different.  For example, the boxing heavyweights of the 60's, 70's, and mid 80's are better than American heavyweight boxers today.  

You think time will help someone deal with Marciano's double left hook?

So you disagree with his wrestling analogy?  Or you just were throwing boxing out there for discussion?

[Cptafw164 130]

6 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

Fight sports are a little different.  For example, the boxing heavyweights of the 60's, 70's, and mid 80's are better than American heavyweight boxers today.  

You think time will help someone deal with Marciano's double left hook?

Marciano would have been murdered by an early or late Tyson.  Not fast enough.  Boxing is even more a sport that benefits natural athletes (strength speed reflexes). I know because I taught boxing at USMA and graduated from there.  The reason why West Point has had so many NCBA championships is because a good boxing coach can take someone with the build and physical attributes and make them into a national champ in less than a year.  You CANNOT do that with wrestling.  
 

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Cptafw164

[TobusRex 2,108]

3 minutes ago, Cptafw164 said:

 You CANNOT do that with wrestling.  

Brock Lesnar.

[GoNotQuietly 1,175]

Wait, people think that Dan Hodge could completely overpower the Cael Sanderson who defeated Yoel Romero at the Olympics and barely lost to Sazhidov ???  C'mon now.

I mean, have you ever seen Jon Trenge in person?

Edited February 25, 2020 by GoNotQuietly

[Cptafw164 130]

1 minute ago, TobusRex said:

Brock Lesnar.

Too bad he wrestled since he was 10.  So you have another example?

What I witnessed at West Point is the boxing coach pulling someone aside from class and asking if they wanted to do boxing...never boxed before...and made THEM national champs in less than a year.  Not just one but several guys.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Cptafw164

[Mphillips 1,829]

1 minute ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Wait, people think that Dan Hodge could completely overpower the Cael Sanderson who defeated Yoel Romero at the Olympics and barely lost to Sazhidov ???  C'mon now.

Not the smart ones.  : )

[GoNotQuietly 1,175]

Here is Jon Trenge, who Cael routinely demolished:

Here is Danny Hodge, who would "overpower" Cael:

 

 

GTFOH

[shieldofpistis 156]

11 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

So you disagree with his wrestling analogy?  Or you just were throwing boxing out there for discussion?

Just making reference.  We live in a horrible era for American heavyweight boxing. 

[headshuck 2,626]

I dunno.  Need to figure out how to equalize them.  If Hodge was wrestling for PSU right now, you'd barely notice Taylor, Nolf, Ruth, Rutherford, etc.