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When was the last time OKST looked this bad under Smith?

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14 minutes ago, osufan12 said:

As an OSU fan the notion of replacing John Smith with Jordan Oliver is about as dumb of a thing as I can think. 

John felt the heat and made changes to the coaching staff and since then their recruiting has grown by leaps and bounds. They have two monster classes coming in. John has earned more than enough goodwill to see those classes through. If we are sitting here in four years and things haven't gone a ton better than yeah, conversations probably need to begin. Right now it is dumb. Everyone knew this year was going to be down. 

Yeah, Jordan Oliver is a bit of a stretch. Taylor/Dake, not so much. I think David Taylor will be a spectacular coach.

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2 hours ago, TobusRex said:

To the guys who think I'm crazy for saying John Smith SHOULD be feeling the heat I have this to offer: do you think he earned a lifetime job at OSU (at taxpayer expense, btw, because he is an employee of the state of Oklahoma) because of his achievements in international wrestling, regardless of his results? That's essentially what you are saying. Frankly, I think Oklahoma State wrestling is better than that.

I’m not saying your crazy for thinking he should feel the heat, but in terms of the goodwill he may be getting regardless of results....don’t you think maybe his 5 NCAA team titles, 32 champs, 129 All-Americans, and 426-62 record, and regularly getting guys on the national team would play a part? 

Edited by Lurker

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35 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I’m not saying your crazy for thinking he should feel the heat, but in terms of the goodwill he may be getting regardless of results....don’t you think maybe his 5 NCAA team titles, 32 champs, 129 All-Americans, and 426-62 record would play a part? 

They shouldn't. Those numbers look great until you realize he's been HC for about 30 years now. How many NCAA team titles has OSU won since 2006? None. How many times have they finished as runnerups in that time? Twice, same as the number of times they didn't finish in the top 10. OSU has only taken 6 team trophies from the NCAAs in that span, which is pretty rotten for a supposed to be powerhouse. OSU's average ranking the last 13 years at NCAAs is 5.76 - outside taking a team trophy, btw. So John's numbers are bolstered by success from YEARS ago. I realize that those are probably dream numbers to a school like, oh, Cornell or Minnesota, but this is the granddaddy of college wrestling here, Oklahoma State. They ought to be better. John knows they should be better, I guarantee it.

Now realize I'm not calling on OSU to fire John Smith. I do like the guy and root for him and I still brag I got to roll around with him on the mat before he became a big star. But the fact is that if I was pulling the trigger in Stillwater, I'd pull the trigger and hire some younger guy. Probably Mark Branch, who is deeply plugged into Oklahoma wrestling and a lot younger, but if David Taylor or Kyle Dake came calling, I'd definitely listen. Hell, I'd listen to Terry Brands if he came along, if for no other reason than I like listening to crazy people. I'd move John up to another position, maybe one created for him. "Wrestling director", or some such. Assistant AD. You know what I'm saying.

Edited by TobusRex

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34 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

They shouldn't. Those numbers look great until you realize he's been HC for about 30 years now. How many NCAA team titles has OSU won since 2006? None. How many times have they finished as runnerups in that time? Twice, same as the number of times they didn't finish in the top 10. OSU has only taken 6 team trophies from the NCAAs in that span, which is pretty rotten for a supposed to be powerhouse. OSU's average ranking the last 13 years at NCAAs is 5.76 - outside taking a team trophy, btw. So John's numbers are bolstered by success from YEARS ago. I realize that those are probably dream numbers to a school like, oh, Cornell or Minnesota, but this is the granddaddy of college wrestling here, Oklahoma State. They ought to be better. John knows they should be better, I guarantee it.

Now realize I'm not calling on OSU to fire John Smith. I do like the guy and root for him and I still brag I got to roll around with him on the mat before he became a big star. But the fact is that if I was pulling the trigger in Stillwater, I'd pull the trigger and hire some younger guy. Probably Mark Branch, who is deeply plugged into Oklahoma wrestling and a lot younger, but if David Taylor or Kyle Dake came calling, I'd definitely listen. Hell, I'd listen to Terry Brands if he came along, if for no other reason than I like listening to crazy people. I'd move John up to another position, maybe one created for him. "Wrestling director", or some such. Assistant AD. You know what I'm saying.

No I hear ya that it’s been along time. I get that. But I ask you, how many gettable coaches are available that has the results he has?  Even if those titles were 15 years ago. Frankly those not many coaches that have one since his last. He’s still putting athletes in the NCAA finals on a regular basis, athletes on the national team on a regular basis, still is competitive for top five on a regular basis.  That’s not easy to replace. I get your position, I just don’t think hotseat. If I was admin I’d have a tough time getting rid of Smith for an unknown (in terms of coaching)

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5 minutes ago, Lurker said:

No I hear ya that it’s been along time. I get that. But I ask you, how many gettable coaches are available that has the results he has?  Even if those titles were 15 years ago. Frankly those not many coaches that have one since his last. He’s still putting athletes in the NCAA finals on a regular basis, athletes on the national team on a regular basis, still is competitive for top five on a regular basis.  That’s not easy to replace. I get your position, I just don’t think hotseat. If I was admin I’d have a tough time getting rid of Smith for an unknown (in terms of coaching)

An admin couldn't do it unless they hate wrestling, the school, the Olympics, God and the USA.  

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Just now, Lurker said:

No I hear ya that it’s been along time. I get that. But I ask you, how many gettable coaches are available that has the results he has?  Even if those titles were 15 years ago. Frankly those not many coaches that have one since his last. He’s still putting athletes in the NCAA finals on a regular basis, athletes on the national team on a regular basis, still is competitive for top five on a regular basis.  That’s not easy to replace. I get your position, I just don’t think hotseat. If I was admin I’d have a tough time getting rid of Smith for an unknown (in terms of coaching)

I think there are a lot of gettable coaches. Sure, you won't find any available with John Smith's credentials, but how can they get those credentials if they aren't allowed to coach in the first place? I think I'm probably wrong in being so enamored of Mark Branch just because he's a Cowboy. He's a helluva coach and I think he'd be great, but name recognition wise these kids today have no idea who he is.  But you know there are some wrestlers that all the HS kids admire: Nolf, Taylor, Dake, Nickal, etc. Nolf is simply the best college wrestler I've ever seen, and that includes Cael. If Jason Nolf came calling and wanted to coach me up, I'd sign immediately. Same for any of those guys, actually. Recruiting is half the battle. Plus I like the symmetry of OSU/PSU: consider that Gallagher's assistant coaches proliferated in Pennsylvania. I think it's time Pennsylvania gave something back, lol.

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13 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

Yup, Eisenhower.

Do you have any idea of what you are talking about?

Yes, in the middle 1950's Eisenhower established a small presence of several hundred soldiers  in Viet Nam, because of the North's support by the Soviet Union during the Cold War, but the real involvement came from John Kennedy and especially Lyndon Johnson.  Nixon ended involvement in 1973.  

It's easy to criticise after the fact, so I don't fault any of them.  I lived during the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the threat of a major war was real.

 

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9 hours ago, TobusRex said:

Alright, I'll play. Why do you think PSU was a weird choice for PSU? Who do you think they should've hired?

 

12 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

Why was it weird then?

Think back , at the time, and there was such an exodus of high school  kids from the Keystone State.  Pennsylvania State was having a hell of a time keeping their own, home. 
They all talked about the Iowa Way, how they liked that style, and they mimicked this in High School.  
The logical hire , at the time would have been someone with ties to the Iowa way, Brands for example.  
The odd , out in left field hire, would have been someone like Sanderson. Sanderson style of wrestling? Not a well developed ideology yet.Or didn’t have the notoriety in that period. 
So don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying ” bad” here. Hind sight says otherwise, but weird.  

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7 hours ago, TheOhioState said:

Do you have any idea of what you are talking about?

Yes, in the middle 1950's Eisenhower established a small presence of several hundred soldiers  in Viet Nam, because of the North's support by the Soviet Union during the Cold War, but the real involvement came from John Kennedy and especially Lyndon Johnson.  Nixon ended involvement in 1973.  

It's easy to criticise after the fact, so I don't fault any of them.  I lived during the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the threat of a major war was real.

 

Yes.  Ike even told Kennedy to stay out of Vietnam.

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