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2 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Hyperbole maybe, but its not a false equivalence. Just because the law or rules does or doesn't say something, doesn't mean that all actions that abide by those rules are morally right.  

take your "morals" out of it... that is the point... legislating "morals" is possibly the worst aspect of human behavior... 

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2 minutes ago, LJB said:

we are not talking what should or shouldn't count in the "fans" clouded mind...

we are talking about what does and doesn't count...

dresser got some of his kids what they needed within the present rule set... the rest is just whining by "fans" based off of their agenda...

Yeah you guys, your "fan" agenda to have honest matches is definitely secondary to Dresser's agenda to take a spot away from another wrestler through a gaming agenda. It's so obvious I can't believe I even have to point it out to you knuckleheads.

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Just now, LJB said:

we are not talking what should or shouldn't count in the "fans" clouded mind...

we are talking about what does and doesn't count...

dresser got some of his kids what they needed within the present rule set... the rest is just whining by "fans" based off of their agenda...

I'm a Cornell guy! If Dresser is right that the Womack-Pellumbi match was a dive, scrap it and EIWA loses a slot. Where I agree with you is that actual matches between teammates have always counted, so they should count in Last Chance (which, admittedly helps exonerate the Cornell example as long as a mismatch was wrestled with integrity). On the other hand, the NCAA can absolutely call shenanigans on such an egregious fake as entering wrestlers who were at best literally incapable of competition (which would catch ISU and Wisconsin).

My agenda is integrity.

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2 minutes ago, ugarte said:

I'm a Cornell guy! If Dresser is right that the Womack-Pellumbi match was a dive, scrap it and EIWA loses a slot. Where I agree with you is that actual matches between teammates have always counted, so they should count in Last Chance (which, admittedly helps exonerate the Cornell example as long as a mismatch was wrestled with integrity). On the other hand, the NCAA can absolutely call shenanigans on such an egregious fake as entering wrestlers who were at best literally incapable of competition (which would catch ISU and Wisconsin).

My agenda is integrity.

then quit whining about it and lobby the NCAA the change their rules... it is as simple as that...

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3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Yeah you guys, your "fan" agenda to have honest matches is definitely secondary to Dresser's agenda to take a spot away from another wrestler through a gaming agenda. It's so obvious I can't believe I even have to point it out to you knuckleheads.

then quit whining about it and lobby the NCAA the change their rules... it is as simple as that...

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5 minutes ago, LJB said:

then quit whining about it and lobby the NCAA the change their rules... it is as simple as that...

you act as if the ncaa doesn't have it in it's power to make the call itself right now during the bid allocation process. they absolutely can and should. and i'd be stunned if this doesn't force an official rule change about forfeits against teammates.

Edited by ugarte

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2 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Find me a law that is not backed by ethics and morals. I don't think there is such a thing..

i don't disagree with that... i could have worded my intent better... i could have replaced "morals" with "personal morals/interest/agenda/whatever"

the point doesn't change...

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2 minutes ago, ugarte said:

you act as if the ncaa doesn't have it in it's power to make the call itself right now during the bid allocation process. they absolutely can and should. and i'd be stunned if this doesn't force an official rule change about forfeits against teammates.

they probably should... 

again, a sternly worded letter might help your cause...

whining on this forum will not...

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Just now, LJB said:

they probably should... 

again, a sternly worded letter might help your cause...

whining on this forum will not...

Maybe we can provide you our mailing addresses so you can send us a sternly worded letter instead of whining about us on this forum?

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1 minute ago, LJB said:

they probably should... 

again, a sternly worded letter might help your cause...

whining on this forum will not...

this is a forum. it's all we can do. your posturing is embarrassing. "Look at me, the wise man who understands that bad things are actually good because it was useful to to do a bad thing!"

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4 minutes ago, ugarte said:

this is a forum. it's all we can do. your posturing is embarrassing. "Look at me, the wise man who understands that bad things are actually good because it was useful to to do a bad thing!"

posturing?

hardly...

the first page mooks from yesterday were proven wrong about some potential cover up...

dresser came on and thumbed his nose at this phantom "moral high ground" all while being completely within the rules...

and why did he do that?

he did it for his kids because he could...

 

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5 minutes ago, LJB said:

the first page mooks from yesterday were proven wrong about some potential cover up...

fair enough. the complaining that flo's technical issues were as fake as the 184 bracket at last chance were out of line.

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13 minutes ago, LJB said:

i don't disagree with that... i could have worded my intent better... i could have replaced "morals" with "personal morals/interest/agenda/whatever"

the point doesn't change...

But to the point we were initially addressing: You don't believe we should be crying about this because the rules were in place. To take that to its logical conclusion would suggest that no rule should be criticized. My personal morals are used to critique the current rules that would allow such a thing, because it appears wrong me and many others. Because it appears wrong to so many people is why Dresser feels the need to tell his side of the story. Public opinion matters and influences the way the system works. I don't know why you would feel the need to criticize that. This "them's the rules" attitude is shortsighted and completely ignores the way the system works.

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3 minutes ago, russelscout said:

But to the point we were initially addressing: You don't believe we should be crying about this because the rules were in place. To take that to its logical conclusion would suggest that no rule should be criticized. My personal morals are used to critique the current rules that would allow such a thing, because it appears wrong me and many others. Because it appears wrong to so many people is why Dresser feels the need to tell his side of the story. Public opinion matters and influences the way the system works. I don't know why you would feel the need to criticize that. This "them's the rules" attitude is shortsighted and completely ignores the way the system works.

anyone saying dresser was wrong is what i take exception with...

he was not wrong... he was completely right... as per the rules...

the rule is silly, but, that's folk isn't it?

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3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Things can be legal and immoral at the same time.  If we can acknowledge something is greasy, we can criticize it, even if it's allowed under the rules.

who is the judge of morality?

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Just now, LJB said:

anyone saying dresser was wrong is what i take exception with...

he was not wrong... he was completely right... as per the rules...

the rule is silly, but, that's folk isn't it?

He did not break the rules. It certainly says something about his character that most of us disagree with. The fact that he willing say since there is no seeding criteria, he can just do whatever he wants that favors him is a clear example of rigging the tournament. Although its not cheating by the rules, it certainly is not in the spirit of how tournaments should be run. The fact that he tries to phrase it all as a victim who has no other way of dealing with this because "them's the rules", is ridiculous and he should be embarrassed.

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3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

We are each the judge of our own morality in those cases.  But I think you yourself acknowledge it as greasy earlier, right?

of course it is greasy...

of course the rule should be changed...

dresser is still not wrong and i got a kick out of him saying it...

and trust me, i am no "fan" of his personally...

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