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shieldofpistis

Coach that could make Cael-like splash

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I am not sure I have seen a coach of any sport reach nearly a decade of dominance like Cael Sanderson has done at Penn St.  In any major sport.  Penn St was talented, but Sanderson turned around a team that was not winning national titles, and now may be the first year in eight that they probably won't win it?  

 

I was thinking of another coach that might be able to do something similar for another program as Chael has done at Penn St.  And the name I have come up with as best being able to duplicate Cael's success- or the person to get the closest- would be Chael Sonnen.  

 

Chael Sonnen is a better speaker than Sanderson.  Not even close.  I imagine he would be a better salesperson to recruits and boosters.  If you have not seen Chael on the apprentice then you probably don't know how much of a shark he can be.  

 

Some may think that the the level of wrestling between Sonnen and Sanderson isn't even close.  That is fair.  Some say Sanderson may be the best American wrestler we have had.  Sonnen has post-college success, but nothing like Sanderson.  

 

However, this is the concept that some on this board will not like. MMA is much bigger than amateur wrestling.  In fact, there have been a few UFC fighters interviewed who said they wrestled in high school to prepare for the UFC.  I imagine Sonnen would be able to get a great majority of the wrestlers going into MMA after college.  That's the key.  A guy like Bo Nickal who has stated he wanted to go to MMA--- what if Sonnen recruited him? Someone that knows the MMA inside and out and wrestling inside and out?  Sonnen certainly would prepare a wrestler better for mma. He does not have an olympic gold, but he does have fighting victories over Shogun, Wanderlia, Nate M., Okami, Rampage, Bisping, Stan, and he pushed Anderson Silva, one of the greatest ever, to the limit.  There are many who would rather have his sporting accomplishments than Cael Sanderson, especially considering he has made so much more per match. 

 

There have been MMA guys who were better wrestlers than Sonnen, like Askren.  But I think Sonnen is the best one to be able to run a program.  And I know it will hurt the ears of die hard pure wrestling fans who hate MMA.  But more people- by a landslide- know Sonnen than Sanderson.  

 

I'm not saying Sonnen would be better than Sanderson.  I"m saying he is my choice for being the next closest at being able to replicate what Sanderson has done.  Who is your choice? Why?

Edit:  I think you guys are missing the point.  I admitted he wouldn't be as good as Sanderson.  But I think Sonnen has a combination of skills and talents that would make him someone that may be able to run a powerhouse program.  Sorry about mispelling Cael. 

Edited by shieldofpistis
correct.

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Not Sonnen, because I couldn't disagree more with your entire reasoning. 

That said, nobody saw John Wooden coming like that.  Same for Dan Gable, Pat Summitt, and Cael Sanderson.  I don't think you can see once in a generation dominance coming like that.  If you were to pin me on a guess, Taylor with what he has going at his Academy and his high level of acheivement, charisma and seems to be a good speaker.  The unknown until you get there is, your ability to get 18-23 year olds buying what you are selling, day in and day out.

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8 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

I am not sure I have seen a coach of any sport reach nearly a decade of dominance like Chael Sanderson has done at Penn St.  In any major sport.  Penn St was talented, but Sanderson turned around a team that was not winning national titles, and now may be the first year in eight that they probably won't win it?  

 

I was thinking of another coach that might be able to do something similar for another program as Chael has done at Penn St.  And the name I have come up with as best being able to duplicate Chael's success- or the person to get the closest- would be Chael Sonnen.  I know- the battle of the Chaels. 

 

Chael Sonnen is a better speaker than Sanderson.  Not even close.  I imagine he would be a better salesperson to recruits and boosters.  If you have not seen Chael on the apprentice then you probably don't know how much of a shark he can be.  

 

Some may think that the the level of wrestling between Sonnen and Sanderson isn't even close.  That is fair.  Some say Sanderson may be the best American wrestler we have had.  Sonnen has post-college success, but nothing like Sanderson.  

 

However, this is the concept that some on this board will not like. MMA is much bigger than amateur wrestling.  In fact, there have been a few UFC fighters interviewed who said they wrestled in high school to prepare for the UFC.  I imagine Sonnen would be able to get a great majority of the wrestlers going into MMA after college.  That's the key.  A guy like Bo Nickal who has stated he wanted to go to MMA--- what if Sonnen recruited him? Someone that knows the MMA inside and out and wrestling inside and out?  Sonnen certainly would prepare a wrestler better for mma. He does not have an olympic gold, but he does have fighting victories over Shogun, Wanderlia, Nate M., Okami, Rampage, Bisping, Stan, and he pushed Anderson Silva, one of the greatest ever, to the limit.  There are many who would rather have his sporting accomplishments than Chael Sanderson, especially considering he has made so much more per match. 

 

There have been MMA guys who were better wrestlers than Sonnen, like Askren.  But I think Sonnen is the best one to be able to run a program.  And I know it will hurt the ears of die hard pure wrestling fans who hate MMA.  But more people- by a landslide- know Sonnen than Sanderson.  

 

I'm not saying Sonnen would be better than Sanderson.  I"m saying he is my choice for being the next closest at being able to replicate what Sanderson has done.  Who is your choice? Why?

I believe it is spelled Sandursun

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5 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Not Sonnen, because I couldn't disagree more with your entire reasoning. 

That said, nobody saw John Wooden coming like that.  Same for Dan Gable, Pat Summitt, and Cael Sanderson.  I don't think you can see once in a generation dominance coming like that.  If you were to pin me on a guess, Taylor with what he has going at his Academy and his high level of acheivement, charisma and seems to be a good speaker.  The unknown until you get there is, your ability to get 18-23 year olds buying what you are selling, day in and day out.

Taylor is a sincere person who I think would be respected.  I do think you are underestimating the MMA push.  But I asked for your pick and you answered so I can't complain. 

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11 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

I am not sure I have seen a coach of any sport reach nearly a decade of dominance like Chael Sanderson has done at Penn St.  In any major sport.  Penn St was talented, but Sanderson turned around a team that was not winning national titles, and now may be the first year in eight that they probably won't win it?  

 

I was thinking of another coach that might be able to do something similar for another program as Chael has done at Penn St.  And the name I have come up with as best being able to duplicate Chael's success- or the person to get the closest- would be Chael Sonnen.  I know- the battle of the Chaels. 

 

Chael Sonnen is a better speaker than Sanderson.  Not even close.  I imagine he would be a better salesperson to recruits and boosters.  If you have not seen Chael on the apprentice then you probably don't know how much of a shark he can be.  

 

Some may think that the the level of wrestling between Sonnen and Sanderson isn't even close.  That is fair.  Some say Sanderson may be the best American wrestler we have had.  Sonnen has post-college success, but nothing like Sanderson.  

 

However, this is the concept that some on this board will not like. MMA is much bigger than amateur wrestling.  In fact, there have been a few UFC fighters interviewed who said they wrestled in high school to prepare for the UFC.  I imagine Sonnen would be able to get a great majority of the wrestlers going into MMA after college.  That's the key.  A guy like Bo Nickal who has stated he wanted to go to MMA--- what if Sonnen recruited him? Someone that knows the MMA inside and out and wrestling inside and out?  Sonnen certainly would prepare a wrestler better for mma. He does not have an olympic gold, but he does have fighting victories over Shogun, Wanderlia, Nate M., Okami, Rampage, Bisping, Stan, and he pushed Anderson Silva, one of the greatest ever, to the limit.  There are many who would rather have his sporting accomplishments than Chael Sanderson, especially considering he has made so much more per match. 

 

There have been MMA guys who were better wrestlers than Sonnen, like Askren.  But I think Sonnen is the best one to be able to run a program.  And I know it will hurt the ears of die hard pure wrestling fans who hate MMA.  But more people- by a landslide- know Sonnen than Sanderson.  

 

I'm not saying Sonnen would be better than Sanderson.  I"m saying he is my choice for being the next closest at being able to replicate what Sanderson has done.  Who is your choice? Why?

A middling college wrestler, convicted felon, with multiple time drug failures, who in MMA choked every time it counted-coaching the most dominant program in decades? Seriously?

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It got us talking.

1 minute ago, Force118 said:

A middling college wrestler, convicted felon, with multiple time drug failures, who in MMA choked every time it counted-coaching the most dominant program in decades? Seriously?

 

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I could be wrong but I believe what shield is trying to say is Chael Sonnen has the wrestling knowledge, personality, salesmanship and energy level to convince talented guys to join his team. I’m a believer in him too but comparing him to Cael Sanderson is like comparing Wrestling to MMA. Two different animals.

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2 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

Taylor is a sincere person who I think would be respected.  I do think you are underestimating the MMA push.  But I asked for your pick and you answered so I can't complain. 

The majority of athletes that one would need to recruit to build the type of program you speak of, are not looking into their recruitement with MMA ideas, they are looking into their recruitment with Olympic aspirations.  Yes there are some who will completely forgo senior level wrestling, but the majority of your roster, to have a program like that, will be kids that want to be world and olympic champions.  MMA may be on their mind, but I dont think they are going to pick a Jon Jones over a David Taylor.  You talking about being near the top recruiting class year after year after year.

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speaking of MMA, did anyone see Ed Ruth on Bellator Friday night.  He was totally dominated by his opponent including being taken down at will. Surprising for a 3 time NCAA wrestling champion. Perhaps he can come back but he did not look good at all.

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Personally I don’t think Dake, Taylor, Burroughs is one of the next multiple national title coaches.  These guys are earning their chops competing and are able to do it for a longer period of time as a job.  Brands, Sanderson, Ryan, Smith were all coaching, recruiting and competing at the same time.

Most likely the next coach to win multiple titles is going to go to one of those programs.   Brands Probly there 10 more years, Sanderson and Ryan too.   Who goes to OSU and can they put them over the top?

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Regardless of whether they want to coach in college, we probably have our best crop of "difference maker" potential head coaches than we ever had.

Dake, Taylor, Burroughs, and Snyder have the accolades and name recognition to take programs to the next level if they also have the administrative skills.

The problem is, are there enough programs out there that would invest in those guys?  OSU could be available soon, I don't see 10 more years with Brands or Ryan and Sanderson isn't going anywhere until he passes Gable.

Dake will take over for Koll sooner rather than later, Taylor is screwing around with a club so who knows there, Snyder was the best applicant for when Ryan moves on but did the NLWC move hurt that?  Burroughs says he doesn't want to be a D1 coach so is it USA Wrestling for him?

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7 minutes ago, Boompa said:

Regardless of whether they want to coach in college, we probably have our best crop of "difference maker" potential head coaches than we ever had.

Dake, Taylor, Burroughs, and Snyder have the accolades and name recognition to take programs to the next level if they also have the administrative skills.

The problem is, are there enough programs out there that would invest in those guys?  OSU could be available soon, I don't see 10 more years with Brands or Ryan and Sanderson isn't going anywhere until he passes Gable.

Dake will take over for Koll sooner rather than later, Taylor is screwing around with a club so who knows there, Snyder was the best applicant for when Ryan moves on but did the NLWC move hurt that?  Burroughs says he doesn't want to be a D1 coach so is it USA Wrestling for him?

Screwing around with a club?

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12 minutes ago, Boompa said:

Regardless of whether they want to coach in college, we probably have our best crop of "difference maker" potential head coaches than we ever had.

Dake, Taylor, Burroughs, and Snyder have the accolades and name recognition to take programs to the next level if they also have the administrative skills.

The problem is, are there enough programs out there that would invest in those guys?  OSU could be available soon, I don't see 10 more years with Brands or Ryan and Sanderson isn't going anywhere until he passes Gable.

Dake will take over for Koll sooner rather than later, Taylor is screwing around with a club so who knows there, Snyder was the best applicant for when Ryan moves on but did the NLWC move hurt that?  Burroughs says he doesn't want to be a D1 coach so is it USA Wrestling for him?

Well Brands and company just signed on for 6 more years so I guess that leaves Spencer Lee 2 Olympic cycles and then he’s next man up....

But brands are in there early 50s if they still have the fire could see them going after this contract..

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7 minutes ago, moose41 said:

Well Brands and company just signed on for 6 more years so I guess that leaves Spencer Lee 2 Olympic cycles and then he’s next man up....

But brands are in there early 50s if they still have the fire could see them going after this contract..

Spencer will take over and he will be better than T&T.

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25 minutes ago, Boompa said:

Regardless of whether they want to coach in college, we probably have our best crop of "difference maker" potential head coaches than we ever had.

Dake, Taylor, Burroughs, and Snyder have the accolades and name recognition to take programs to the next level if they also have the administrative skills.

The problem is, are there enough programs out there that would invest in those guys?  OSU could be available soon, I don't see 10 more years with Brands or Ryan and Sanderson isn't going anywhere until he passes Gable.

Dake will take over for Koll sooner rather than later, Taylor is screwing around with a club so who knows there, Snyder was the best applicant for when Ryan moves on but did the NLWC move hurt that?  Burroughs says he doesn't want to be a D1 coach so is it USA Wrestling for him?

I think - but am not positive - that Snyder has also said he doesn’t want to be a college coach either. I remember him saying it in an interview somewhat recently.

Of the bunch you named I think Dake has the best shot at being the next highly successful college coach. If he sticks at Cornell that’ll likely be a meaningful headwind (tough admissions, weaker conference, no scholarships, no redshirts, etc)...but I still think he has the best shot at being highly successful. 

Don’t sleep on Nolf either...at least once he’s done competing. He may not have the outgoing personality some people perceive as a prerequisite...but if I was a HS star recruit he’d be the guy I’d most want coaching me day to day in the room. 

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29 minutes ago, MDogg said:

I think - but am not positive - that Snyder has also said he doesn’t want to be a college coach either. I remember him saying it in an interview somewhat recently.

Of the bunch you named I think Dake has the best shot at being the next highly successful college coach. If he sticks at Cornell that’ll likely be a meaningful headwind (tough admissions, weaker conference, no scholarships, no redshirts, etc)...but I still think he has the best shot at being highly successful. 

Don’t sleep on Nolf either...at least once he’s done competing. He may not have the outgoing personality some people perceive as a prerequisite...but if I was a HS star recruit he’d be the guy I’d most want coaching me day to day in the room. 

I didn't mention Nolf because I think we are years away from him being the conversation of D1 head coach and I can see him doing another cycle.  I agree on his personality which is very Cael-like which can work, Retherford has a similar personality but weaker than Nolf but I see him doing another cycle as well.

But I didn't mentioned either of them because there are no worlds medals yet.......

Edited by Boompa

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3 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

 Penn St was talented, but Sanderson turned around a team that was not winning national titles, and now may be the first year in eight that they probably won't win it?  

2015 was less than 8 years ago

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3 hours ago, Force118 said:

A middling college wrestler, convicted felon, with multiple time drug failures, who in MMA choked every time it counted-coaching the most dominant program in decades? Seriously?

I wouldn’t call him middling he was an AA and I believe pac 10 champ....otherwise I agree with everything else you said lol 

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