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shieldofpistis

Coach that could make Cael-like splash

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2 hours ago, Boompa said:

Dake will take over for Koll sooner rather than later, Taylor is screwing around with a club so who knows there, Snyder was the best applicant for when Ryan moves on but did the NLWC move hurt that?  Burroughs says he doesn't want to be a D1 coach so is it USA Wrestling for him?

I think you are underestimating how much respect Mike Grey has as a coach, just listen to some of yianni interviews when he talks about him ,He ll be the guy to replace Koll when the time comes.

Jaggers or Steiber are more likely to replace Ryan, and Snyder has mentioned a few times he wants to compete until his mid 30s, which is a long way from now.

JB has stated he wants to come back to NJ and open a club and coach kids, IMO if he went to Rutgers and replaced Goodale he would be able to make the kind of jumps with that program that Cael made a  penn state, not saying they win 8 titles but I think he would have them as a top 5-7 team every year and be in the mix for trophies with regularity 

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1 minute ago, portajohn said:

Wrestling is the only sport I can think of where success as a participant correlates to success as a coach.  The next great college coach will come with a lot of personal hardware. 

I never thought about this until now and I think its interesting.  I 100% agree with you.  I could not make a case for another sport.

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If you want to go the MMA angle, it'd have to be Askren.   He has both MMA and wrestling success as well as the charisma/speaking ability/personality being discussed.  Although I think he said he wasn't interested in being a HC.

So I'd say Spencer Lee might be the next one.

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23 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

If you want to go the MMA angle, it'd have to be Askren.   He has both MMA and wrestling success as well as the charisma/speaking ability/personality being discussed.  Although I think he said he wasn't interested in being a HC.

So I'd say Spencer Lee might be the next one.

I wouldn’t forget Daniel Cormier-Accomplished Wrestler/Olympian/Two division champ in UFC/great commentator/non abrasive personality  

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1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

I think you are underestimating how much respect Mike Grey has as a coach, just listen to some of yianni interviews when he talks about him ,He ll be the guy to replace Koll when the time comes.

Jaggers or Steiber are more likely to replace Ryan, and Snyder has mentioned a few times he wants to compete until his mid 30s, which is a long way from now.

JB has stated he wants to come back to NJ and open a club and coach kids, IMO if he went to Rutgers and replaced Goodale he would be able to make the kind of jumps with that program that Cael made a  penn state, not saying they win 8 titles but I think he would have them as a top 5-7 team every year and be in the mix for trophies with regularity 

Lol, Like Cornell is going to put Grey in front of Dake.

Do you actually listen to what you are saying before you post?  Or is it just wishful thinking?

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5 hours ago, jross said:

JB, Dake, and Taylor have large fan bases and would reel in good recruits.  So would Snyder and Cox.

I think Sonnen is more mainstream and popular than JB, DAke, and Taylor combined.  Sonnen regularly appears on Bellator and ESPN analyzing fights with Helwani.  Guess who watches these shows?  High school wrestlers. 

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5 hours ago, southend said:

Is this a Jimmy thread? In a covert job?

I'm going to ignore how insulting that is.  Use your own logic.  Jimmy knows more about amateur wrestling than me.  He keeps up with it a lot.  Even though I won our two bets and he hasn't paid me, he still knows more about who wrestles for which team.  

On the other hand, I know a lot more about MMA than Jimmy. 

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21 minutes ago, Boompa said:

Lol, Like Cornell is going to put Grey in front of Dake.

Do you actually listen to what you are saying before you post?  Or is it just wishful thinking?

Grey is already in front of dake on the Cornell coaching ladder 

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58 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

If you want to go the MMA angle, it'd have to be Askren.   He has both MMA and wrestling success as well as the charisma/speaking ability/personality being discussed.  Although I think he said he wasn't interested in being a HC.

So I'd say Spencer Lee might be the next one.

Nobody wants to hire Askren for HC. He's not a hero to the kids because he wrestled college so long ago and he never picked up any international hardware, plus he got absolutely ****canned in his last 2 MMA fights. He's a fun guy to listen to for opinion and stuff, but there are doubts as to his maturity after some of the comments he's made on politics and such. Maybe he'd be a great coach, but I doubt he'll get the chance to start as a HC.

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8 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Grey is already in front of dake on the Cornell coaching ladder 

Say Cornell makes Grey the HC, and Princeton hires Dake. You are a 3 time state champ and both Dake/Grey come calling, who are you gonna wrestle for? 99% will say "Princeton"

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At least spell his name correctly.

Who knew Cael would fine Gable type success? Many others with excellent credentials enter the coaching ranks and don't have one NCAA title, much less eight in ten years.

The landscape is littered with top talent from College, Olympics and World Championships who have nowhere the success Sanderson has brought Penn State. Working with Bobby Douglas had to help.  Same with Dan Gable, he had a leg up with Gary Kurdlemeier the first few years.

A Generational Talent is what Sanderson is, on the mat and as a Coach. Many come in to fanfare and high hopes and don't have his success. It does not happen often and we are lucky to see it now. The latest crop will be entering the ranks within the next few years. Most likely some good programs will do better. Maybe even beat Penn State on occasion, but there is only One Cael.

Lobby all you want, Cael is the answer, not Chael.

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37 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

Nobody wants to hire Askren for HC. He's not a hero to the kids because he wrestled college so long ago and he never picked up any international hardware, plus he got absolutely ****canned in his last 2 MMA fights. He's a fun guy to listen to for opinion and stuff, but there are doubts as to his maturity after some of the comments he's made on politics and such. Maybe he'd be a great coach, but I doubt he'll get the chance to start as a HC.

Well he runs a youth club, is an RTC coach and has D1 coaching experience.  He was still an Olympian despite the “no hardware,” defeated a former UFC champion and was undefeated in Bellator. Throw in that he was a 4x NCAA finalist, 2x champ and 2x Hodge winner,  I’d say his resume is pretty good.  I think he could get a head job if he wanted one.  Doesn’t sound like he does though.

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48 minutes ago, 77again said:

It's hard to overstate what Cael Sanderson did at Penn State.

Troy Sunderland and Mark Perry coached PSU to a 17th place the year before Cael arrived.

And yet they were 3rd the year before that.

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50 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

Say Cornell makes Grey the HC, and Princeton hires Dake. You are a 3 time state champ and both Dake/Grey come calling, who are you gonna wrestle for? 99% will say "Princeton"

Wishful thinking on antitroll's part.

No way Cornell lets Dake slip away to another program.

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6 hours ago, Force118 said:

A middling college wrestler, convicted felon, with multiple time drug failures, who in MMA choked every time it counted-coaching the most dominant program in decades? Seriously?

He defeated Bisping, Rampage, Shogan, Wanderlia, and Nathan M.....and almost pulled off one of the greatest upsets.  He chocked against Jones----who has beat Jones? He lost to Rashad but Rashad was heavier and better striker.  

 

Sonnen would manhandle Sanderson in octagon so let's not act like he's a poor performer. 

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56 minutes ago, 77again said:

It's hard to overstate what Cael Sanderson did at Penn State.

Troy Sunderland and Mark Perry coached PSU to a 17th place the year before Cael arrived.

I know.  That is one reason I made this thread.  Just the inability to name guys who might be able to do the same thing honors Cael.  

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6 minutes ago, Boompa said:

Wishful thinking on antitroll's part.

No way Cornell lets Dake slip away to another program.

How much do you think Dake's suc

 

40 minutes ago, WillieBoy said:

At least spell his name correctly.

Who knew Cael would fine Gable type success? Many others with excellent credentials enter the coaching ranks and don't have one NCAA title, much less eight in ten years.

The landscape is littered with top talent from College, Olympics and World Championships who have nowhere the success Sanderson has brought Penn State. Working with Bobby Douglas had to help.  Same with Dan Gable, he had a leg up with Gary Kurdlemeier the first few years.

A Generational Talent is what Sanderson is, on the mat and as a Coach. Many come in to fanfare and high hopes and don't have his success. It does not happen often and we are lucky to see it now. The latest crop will be entering the ranks within the next few years. Most likely some good programs will do better. Maybe even beat Penn State on occasion, but there is only One Cael.

Lobby all you want, Cael is the answer, not Chael.

ooops. My bad.  

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1 hour ago, shieldofpistis said:

I think Sonnen is more mainstream and popular than JB, Dake, and Taylor combined.  Sonnen regularly appears on Bellator and ESPN analyzing fights with Helwani.  Guess who watches these shows?  High school wrestlers. 

First things first.  The best high school wrestlers want to learn from the most elite senior wrestlers.  The best HS wrestlers would not trust that Chael Sonnen could teach them how to become a D1 college national champion and how to become an Olympic gold medalist.   

Cael Sanderson and Dan Gable were college legends whose success was inspirational.  Many wanted to wrestle for and learn from them.  Sanderson benefitted from not having to compete against Gable for recruits.  As the new recruits were successful, Sanderson became a legendary coach.  He is a proven commodity that will continue to get the best wrestlers until he retires or until his currency fades. 

Kolat is a good example of someone making dramatic improvements from near scratch.  Imagine his success if he was at a more established wrestling school.  Dake, JB, and Taylor's popularity are huge and they would pull recruits that might otherwise fall to Sanderson, Brands, and Smith.  IMO, there is not a potential coach today that will displace an active Sanderson's success in this decade.

Chael Sonnen was not an elite college (folk style) or senior (freestyle) wrestler.  I cannot imagine him pulling the best wrestlers away from the others.  Also, wrestlers do not need Sonnen's connections to join the UFC.  Wrestlers do not need Sonnen to teach them how to only win 65% of their professional MMA matches. 

Edited by jross

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2 minutes ago, jross said:

First things first.  The best high school wrestlers want to learn from the most elite senior wrestlers.  The best HS wrestlers would not trust that Chael could teach them how to become a D1 college national champion and how to become an Olympic gold medalist.   

Cael and Gable were college legends whose success was inspirational.  Many wanted to wrestle for and learn from them.  Cael benefitted from not having to compete against Gable for recruits.  As the new recruits were successful, Cael became a legendary coach.  He is a proven commodity that will continue to get the best wrestlers until he retires or until his currency fades. 

Kolat is a good example of someone making dramatic improvements from near scratch.  Imagine his success if he was at a more established wrestling school.  Dake, JB, and Taylor's popularity are huge and they would pull recruits that might otherwise fall to Cael, Brands, and Smith.  IMO, there is not a potential coach today that will displace an active Cael's success in this decade.

Chael Sonnen was not an elite college (folk style) or senior (freestyle) wrestler.  I cannot imagine him pulling the best wrestlers away from the others.  Also, wrestlers do not need Chael's connections to join the UFC.  Wrestlers do not need Chael to teach them how to only win 65% of their professional MMA matches. 

 

You do have a point that Sanderson would be able to teach kids a higher level of competition than Sonnen. 

 

I am not arguing with you.  I would like your insight.  Do you think at Ohio State Jaggers knows more than Ryan? Would you say they are about the same?  I am not a wrestling historian, but Jaggers has 2 titles. I"m not sure about international experience.  I don't think Tom Ryan ever won an NCAA title.  If you think Jaggers knows a lot more than Ryan, could that potentiall be the same with Sonnen. 

 

This is what I"m getting at.  I could see Chael being the best salesman.  But he's not the best wrestler.  Could he hire top-notch assistance that are high level?  For example,  what if Sonnen took over over a job and had Ringer as an assistant.  Would you buy that?

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