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Did ISU coach Kevin Dresser admit to an NCAA rules violation on Flo today?

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Did ISU coach Kevin Dresser admit to an NCAA rules violation on Flo today?

While being interview on FRL about what happened in the 184 pound bracket at last weekend's Last Chance Open the following exchange occurred:

     Christian Pyles: "Who made the brackets so that  Marcus (Coleman) had a first round match?"

     Kevin Dresser: "Of course we did. Absolutely. I told you, gaming the system. Its like, it's our tournament so we can put the seeds where we want to."

From the NCAA Rule Book, Rule 3 Conduct of Meets and Tournaments, Section 23 Tournaments - Bracketing and Seeding, Article 3 Byes, Paragraph d:

"Tournaments may use alternate methods for assigning byes in the first round of a tournament, as long as byes and/or resulting first-round pigtail matches are distributed randomly and no institution is unfairly helped or harmed by the resulting assignment."

Discuss.

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5 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Did ISU coach Kevin Dresser admit to an NCAA rules violation on Flo today?

While being interview on FRL about what happened in the 184 pound bracket at last weekend's Last Chance Open the following exchange occurred:

     Christian Pyles: "Who made the brackets so that  Marcus (Coleman) had a first round match?"

     Kevin Dresser: "Of course we did. Absolutely. I told you, gaming the system. Its like, it's our tournament so we can put the seeds where we want to."

From the NCAA Rule Book, Rule 3 Conduct of Meets and Tournaments, Section 23 Tournaments - Bracketing and Seeding, Article 3 Byes, Paragraph d:

"Tournaments may use alternate methods for assigning byes in the first round of a tournament, as long as byes and/or resulting first-round pigtail matches are distributed randomly and no institution is unfairly helped or harmed by the resulting assignment."

Discuss.

Yes

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3 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Did ISU coach Kevin Dresser admit to an NCAA rules violation on Flo today?

While being interview on FRL about what happened in the 184 pound bracket at last weekend's Last Chance Open the following exchange occurred:

     Christian Pyles: "Who made the brackets so that  Marcus (Coleman) had a first round match?"

     Kevin Dresser: "Of course we did. Absolutely. I told you, gaming the system. Its like, it's our tournament so we can put the seeds where we want to."

From the NCAA Rule Book, Rule 3 Conduct of Meets and Tournaments, Section 23 Tournaments - Bracketing and Seeding, Article 3 Byes, Paragraph d:

"Tournaments may use alternate methods for assigning byes in the first round of a tournament, as long as byes and/or resulting first-round pigtail matches are distributed randomly and no institution is unfairly helped or harmed by the resulting assignment."

Discuss.

I called this out Sat afternoon the minute I saw it and knew exactly what he did.This type of tournament has been discussed in the coaching circles for a few years.1 coach called around a few years ago looking to do the exact samething and it never happened.Nobody had the balls to actually do it until Dresser caught wind of it.

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21 minutes ago, calot said:

This type of tournament has been discussed in the coaching circles for a few years.1 coach called around a few years ago looking to do the exact samething and it never happened.

Koll?

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4 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

He claims anyone who says they don’t do it is lying. 
  
interesting 

Here is how it goes.You go to a open at the end of the year and need 2 wins for 70% then are gonna MFF out .You see 5 D1 guys and 2 non D1 guys that weighed in.You go up to whoever is running the tournament and say we need 2 matches and thats it I would appreciate it if we didn't get any non D1 guys.You don't set the bracket up against teammates and guys you know are gonna :01 injury the first 2 rounds.Dresser knows exactly what he did has never been done before and is now trying to act like see everyone does it.No Dresser your the only coach who was slimy enough to do what other coaches have been talking about doing.

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5 minutes ago, calot said:

Here is how it goes.You go to a open at the end of the year and need 2 wins for 70% then are gonna MFF out .You see 5 D1 guys and 2 non D1 guys that weighed in.You go up to whoever is running the tournament and say we need 2 matches and thats it I would appreciate it if we didn't get any non D1 guys.You don't set the bracket up against teammates and guys you know are gonna :01 injury the first 2 rounds.Dresser knows exactly what he did has never been done before and is now trying to act like see everyone does it.No Dresser your the only coach who was slimy enough to do what other coaches have been talking about doing.

You could totally be right, but he specifically said it about placing guys in the bracket of your own tournament. Meaning, no seeding criteria, place guys where it benefits you the most (generally done to get # of D1 matches/win percentages up). 
  
I rarely attend these types of tournaments (they are not spectator friendly at all) so I really have zero insight into how it works. 
  
I was as shocked as Askren when Dresser said it isn’t against the rules. It feels like it is/should be

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If a kid has to have his hair cut right before a match (in front of the world to see) because of "rules," then there should be some sort of price (penalty) for Dresser to pay here if it's proven what he did went against rules - which it appears he not only did, but admitted to.

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He also blatantly and admittedly manipulated the outcome of matches for the benefit of his wrestler.  If he knows if his own wrestler is ‘too injured’ to wrestle his other own wrestler, he should not step the injured one on the mat.  It should be a medical forfeit.  
 

But to the main point above - yes.  This rule appears to vindicate Askren’s doubt that what was done was within the rules.

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Just now, nom said:

He also blatantly and admittedly manipulated the outcome of matches for the benefit of his wrestler.  If he knows if his own wrestler is ‘too injured’ to wrestle his other own wrestler, he should not step the injured one on the mat.  It should be a medical forfeit.

Yep. Same goes for the guy that was too "sick" to wrestle his teammate (but fine to wrestle other guys). The fact that they all stepped on the mat so that the starter could accept an inj. def. instead of forfeiting tells you all you need to know. Of course, he admitted to all of this, but that doesn't make it right. Listening to him try to justify all of this was sickening. He'd make a good politician the way he buys in to his own BS.

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20 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

You could totally be right, but he specifically said it about placing guys in the bracket of your own tournament. Meaning, no seeding criteria, place guys where it benefits you the most (generally done to get # of D1 matches/win percentages up). 
  
I rarely attend these types of tournaments (they are not spectator friendly at all) so I really have zero insight into how it works. 
  
I was as shocked as Askren when Dresser said it isn’t against the rules. It feels like it is/should be

I have been involved in the process multiple times.Nobody does what Dresser did he's just trying to make it look like the norm.If anyone believes that I have some land to sell you on the next Hawaiian Island .Not saying you believe him because I know your smarter then that by your posts

Edited by calot

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29 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

You could totally be right, but he specifically said it about placing guys in the bracket of your own tournament. Meaning, no seeding criteria, place guys where it benefits you the most (generally done to get # of D1 matches/win percentages up). 
  

Well apparently you are actually allowed to seed however you want.  It’s his deliberate placement of the byes that appears to be against the rules (he also admitted to doing this with Colbray in addition to answering CP’s question about Coleman).

I do have to give credit to CP for asking some direct questions.

The funny thing is he probably could have “seeded” it so that the byes were not “placed randomly” and his guys got the first round matches, but did not.  

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Is Dresser of Russian ethnicity? Most of you guys are probably too young to remember, but American chess great Bobby Fischer made the observation that "The Russians have fixed international chess". And he was right, they were making guys "lose" matches to guys more politically palatable people (most notoriously Michael Botvinnik). They manipulated the ELO system like a champ. Plus once they hit the candidates tournament the Russians would largely throw draws at each other with the government's favorites (again, mostly Botvinnik) benefiting, while every one that faced a non-Russian would get their full measure, like Fischer. It was pretty scummy. 

Edited by TobusRex

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6 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Well apparently you are actually allowed to seed however you want.  It’s his deliberate placement of the byes that appears to be against the rules (he also admitted to doing this with Colbray in addition to answering CP’s question about Coleman).

I do have to give credit to CP for asking some direct questions.

The funny thing is he probably could have “seeded” it so that the byes were not “placed randomly” and his guys got the first round matches, but did not.  

The funny one is having a kid in a car accident enter and without him you can't make this happen.Broderson was the 9th guy in the bracket which made it possible for Coleman to get 4 matches.In a 8 man bracket Coleman only gets 3 fake matches instead of 4

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1 minute ago, calot said:

The funny one is having a kid in a car accident enter and without him you can't make this happen.Broderson was the 9th guy in the bracket which made it possible for Coleman to get 4 matches.In a 8 man bracket Coleman only gets 3 fake matches instead of 4

Yup I think CP was all over that one saying so why even enter in the first place and even if he was entered why not FF instead of injury default.

I guess in theory you could argue that it was the kid’s own decision to default as I don’t believe Dresser technically admitted to dictating any outcomes of matches did he?

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Surprised? This is the same guy who had Robie go audition Kyle Snyder at a home gym near Manassas, VA.  The same guy who had hs kids working out regularly with VT wrestlers. The same guy who had a NJ pipeline to stock the Xtiansburg line-up year after year. 

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31 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

Is Dresser of Russian ethnicity? Most of you guys are probably too young to remember, but American chess great Bobby Fischer made the observation that "The Russians have fixed international chess". And he was right, they were making guys "lose" matches to guys more politically palatable people (most notoriously Michael Botvinnik). They manipulated the ELO system like a champ. Plus once they hit the candidates tournament the Russians would largely throw draws at each other with the government's favorites (again, mostly Botvinnik) benefiting, while every one that faced a non-Russian would get their full measure, like Fischer. It was pretty scummy. 

I do not think one needs to remember the chess controversy from decades ago. Just remember the Russian doping scandal from the most recent Olympic Games. Russian doctors infiltrated the doping agencies, had a room set up in order to pass clean samples through a wall, and acted if it was A-OK! It's Russia - it's what they do.

This is the textbook definition of "I'm noticing a pattern of behavior".

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1 minute ago, RealAmericanHero said:

I do not think one needs to remember the chess controversy from decades ago. Just remember the Russian doping scandal from the most recent Olympic Games. Russian doctors infiltrated the doping agencies, had a room set up in order to pass clean samples through a wall, and acted if it was A-OK! It's Russia - it's what they do.

This is the textbook definition of "I'm noticing a pattern of behavior".

They certainly do like to cheat. 

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52 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Yup I think CP was all over that one saying so why even enter in the first place and even if he was entered why not FF instead of injury default.

I guess in theory you could argue that it was the kid’s own decision to default as I don’t believe Dresser technically admitted to dictating any outcomes of matches did he?

Admitted knowing his guy was gonna injury default to Coleman and he knew that Sebastian was gonna do the same and thats why he was placed where he was in the bracket.

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47 minutes ago, RealAmericanHero said:

I do not think one needs to remember the chess controversy from decades ago. Just remember the Russian doping scandal from the most recent Olympic Games. Russian doctors infiltrated the doping agencies, had a room set up in order to pass clean samples through a wall, and acted if it was A-OK! It's Russia - it's what they do.

This is the textbook definition of "I'm noticing a pattern of behavior".

Didn't know that Lance Armstrong was Russian.

Marion Jones, Justin Gaitlin, Tyson Gay, Roy Jones Jr., Mark McGwire: all Russians? I had no idea.

Barry Bonds is Russian?!?! Who would have thought it!

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2 hours ago, calot said:

The funny one is having a kid in a car accident enter and without him you can't make this happen.Broderson was the 9th guy in the bracket which made it possible for Coleman to get 4 matches.In a 8 man bracket Coleman only gets 3 fake matches instead of 4

I just listened to part of it again.   Regarding Broderson potentially not entering, he said he "could have done a 7 man round robin."  Is that true?

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8 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I just listened to part of it again.   Regarding Broderson potentially not entering, he said he "could have done a 7 man round robin."  Is that true?

Yes 7 man RR is now possible with 6 matches being able to be wrestled in 1 day.In years past Lock Haven last chance has run 6 man RR brackets when the match limit was 5.

Edited by calot

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