Jump to content
irani

Women wrestling, my very controversial opinion

Recommended Posts

For the first time, a female wrestler won a state championship.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/26/us/first-female-wrestler-state-champ-trnd/index.html?fbclid=IwAR3Zz0B57rJKTQOG7NrzYqJF59igvdS1ZXBIjVmDkDfY3xZrH-2w7Wp_SrQ

Now here is my very controversial opinion:

Make Wrestling a Co-ed sport!

  • I am aware the men will have an advantage in strength and quickness even when they weight the same as women
  • I believe the physical strength is not overwhelming and as evidence by this young woman, it can be overcome by better skills, cardio and mental toughness
  • I am also aware that this would mean that countries like Iran would forfeit matches against women, but that is their problem
  • I expect that women may be competitive in the very lighter weights (50 kg) and non existent in the super heavy weights
  • I expect men to dominate, but some women will be competitive, as demonstrated by this young woman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, irani said:

For the first time, a female wrestler won a state championship.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/26/us/first-female-wrestler-state-champ-trnd/index.html?fbclid=IwAR3Zz0B57rJKTQOG7NrzYqJF59igvdS1ZXBIjVmDkDfY3xZrH-2w7Wp_SrQ

Now here is my very controversial opinion:

Make Wrestling a Co-ed sport!

  • I am aware the men will have an advantage in strength and quickness even when they weight the same as women
  • I believe the physical strength is not overwhelming and as evidence by this young woman, it can be overcome by better skills, cardio and mental toughness
  • I am also aware that this would mean that countries like Iran would forfeit matches against women, but that is their problem
  • I expect that women may be competitive in the very lighter weights (50 kg) and non existent in the super heavy weights
  • I expect men to dominate, but some women will be competitive, as demonstrated by this young woman

I think it would set back women's wrestling immensely if not lead to the end of it all together. While a small contingent of women are viable at the lower weights early in high school, the physical size and strength issues are just too great to overcome. And I don't care how much you enjoy the sport and know its value as far as helping you later in life, nobody is going to continue in a sport where they have absolutely no shot at winning and a really good chance of getting hurt. Here's an example. I think Adeline Gray is somewhere in the 165-175lb. range. She would have absolutely no shot against my below-average freshman college wrestler. I mean absolutely NONE! I don't think she could even score a point but maybe I'm wrong. Except for a few small cases early in high school and at a low weight, I don't believe any women would stand any shot whatsoever. I wish that was not the case but size and strength is what it is.

Let's go back to the Olympic trials 4 years ago. If every woman that was in their trials was put into the men's bracket would any of them have even sniffed a victory? Scored a point?

PS - Now obviously in middle school and elementary school where puberty has not set in you would have a different story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These are kids. When you're that age the strength difference is not too great or even non existent. Girls even go through puberty earlier so they have an advantage in some cases. Bonne is a lighter weight wrestler. Could you imagine him wrestling a woman? Bajrang against a woman? It would be a disaster, people would get hurt. No way can a woman compete with a  grown man in wrestling.

Edited by Shiraz123

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, so let me revise my suggestion:

 

Keep the women's division, but don't deprive them of the opportunity to compete against men in free style and olympics championship.

Just like if you are young wrestler, you can compete in the junir's championship, but if you are really good, you can compete in the seniors.

I know that this does not apply to most women, but watching this young woman dominate her opponents is so inspiring to me, that I would like to see path/opportunity for some woman winning the olympics in the 45 Kg some day

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think you have to be realistic about what happened...

North Carolina... not a traditional wrestling state... the smallest division in a 4 division state... 8 man bracket... 6lber...

while very impressive, she would not have been able to do that in hardly any other circumstance...

 

the elite of the elite girls can dismantle average boys even in HS... they have no chance against even above average boys  and there is not woman on this planet that can compete with the truly elite boys...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, irani said:

OK, so let me revise my suggestion:

 

Keep the women's division, but don't deprive them of the opportunity to compete against men in free style and olympics championship.

Just like if you are young wrestler, you can compete in the junir's championship, but if you are really good, you can compete in the seniors.

I know that this does not apply to most women, but watching this young woman dominate her opponents is so inspiring to me, that I would like to see path/opportunity for some woman winning the olympics in the 45 Kg some day

 

While it is a nice story, I think you are stretching it too far. Because a girl won a random wrestling tournament against boys somewhere in the world does not mean they need to mix the top level of the sport. I'm sure you can find girls who are better than boys in football, faster in running, etc. That doesn't mean they need to mix football at the top level and have a woman try and prevent Ronaldo from scoring a goal, or have a woman try and beat Usain Bolt in a race. At least racing is a relatively harmless sport, with wrestling you would have injuries all over the place. That Indian wrestler who just won gold at 57kg in mens freestyle at the Asian championships would also have won the heaviest women's weight class no problem. 100% guaranteed, forget about putting him against women his own size. 

You also have to be realistic in that a woman would never make a team at this level. You need to be the best wrestler in your own country before you can wrestle at the Olympics. A woman isn't going to make it out of her own country in order to even be able to compete at the Olympics. You say you would like to see a path for women to win the olympics some day but they already have that chance. If you mean against men, then not only would it never happen but I don't see any women even asking for it. Have you seen any top level woman wrestler demand to be allowed to wrestle against men? Some of these women on Japan's Freestyle team have 10 world championships and 3 olympic golds, they have done everything there is to do in the sport, yet I have never heard any of them asking to be allowed to wrestle against men. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, pamela said:

Combining divisions past the junior high level would probably discourage participation, perhaps on both sides, more than encourage it. JMO. 

Exactly my thoughts. Let me ask you this. Do you, or anybody else on here, feel that women have to compete or practice against men to reach their full potential? The best women's high school program here in Nevada doesn't have many, if any, matches against men. They seem to compete only against women. Sterling Dias, a Cadet World medalist, is on that team and I can't remember her competing much against men in the last couple of years. Is the iron sharpens iron theory a detriment to women because of the extra injury or potential injury suffered?

 

Just something I was wondering

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So at over 50+ and at roughly 150 lbs, what chance would I have against these women?  I'd say they might be too much for me at my advanced age.  I don't know.  I do know I would want to get in a mental state of total aggressiveness before I gave it a go.  They  have gotten a lot better, stronger, and more aggressive over the years.  They are very competitive now, at least amongst themselves.  I'm just too kind right now.   Some of them are real goers.   I'm in decent shape though. :)  But I would feel the need to prepare, not something I would do tomorrow.

mspart

Edited by mspart

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

Exactly my thoughts. Let me ask you this. Do you, or anybody else on here, feel that women have to compete or practice against men to reach their full potential? The best women's high school program here in Nevada doesn't have many, if any, matches against men. They seem to compete only against women. Sterling Dias, a Cadet World medalist, is on that team and I can't remember her competing much against men in the last couple of years. Is the iron sharpens iron theory a detriment to women because of the extra injury or potential injury suffered?

 

Just something I was wondering

At the end of the day, female athletes just want the opportunity to compete the same way male athletes do. That doesn’t mean competing against the boys. It happens sometimes because having a girls division can mean having only a tiny handful of opponents, but that isn’t the preference. 

We hear a lot about boys refusing to wrestle girls bc it’s a lose-lose situation, but the same applies to girls. If a girl loses to a boy, it’s bc females are inferior at sports; plus this is wrestling, not table tennis, it could be much more than simply losing. OTOH if a girl wins, well, the guy was just going easy on her, or hey he was a scrub and she could never beat the best, or maybe let’s question her gender.

I don’t follow MMA but I remember years ago ppl said Cris Cyborg should fight men instead of women but I kind of doubt that’s what she wanted. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, irani said:

For the first time, a female wrestler won a state championship.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/26/us/first-female-wrestler-state-champ-trnd/index.html?fbclid=IwAR3Zz0B57rJKTQOG7NrzYqJF59igvdS1ZXBIjVmDkDfY3xZrH-2w7Wp_SrQ

Now here is my very controversial opinion:

Make Wrestling a Co-ed sport!

  • I am aware the men will have an advantage in strength and quickness even when they weight the same as women
  • I believe the physical strength is not overwhelming and as evidence by this young woman, it can be overcome by better skills, cardio and mental toughness
  • I am also aware that this would mean that countries like Iran would forfeit matches against women, but that is their problem
  • I expect that women may be competitive in the very lighter weights (50 kg) and non existent in the super heavy weights
  • I expect men to dominate, but some women will be competitive, as demonstrated by this young woman

This is about as bad as a take as I’ve seen on this forum.  For example Adaline Gray is one of the most dominant females in the world, she weighs 76 kg. Imagine her against Jordan Burroughs, they are a similar weight and both multiple time world champions. How do expect that to go? Don’t be the new JC 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just feel the need to comment on how bad the article is right from the beginning.

"For a moment, it looked like Heaven Fitch was about to lose. The teen wrestling phenom was on the mat under her opponent in the last few seconds of the state championship match."

"She won with an 11-3 major decision"

Clearly she was not close to losing in the last few seconds of the match. But congrats to her on her championship.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

This is about as bad as a take as I’ve seen on this forum.  For example Adaline Gray is one of the most dominant females in the world, she weighs 76 kg. Imagine her against Jordan Burroughs, they are a similar weight and both multiple time world champions. How do expect that to go? Don’t be the new JC 

I don't know who JC is.  But to answer your question, as of now, I expect all the female wrestlers to get destroyed by their male counterparts.  If they trained and competed against men, I expect a few women to be competitive in a few years against men in the lighter weights  100 to 120 pounds.

I know this is only at the high school level, and I know North Carolina is not a top tier state, but I am very impressed by a female winning a state championship.  It's an amazing accomplishment and I don't any of you would have believed it can happen if someone had predicted it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, irani said:

I don't know who JC is.  But to answer your question, as of now, I expect all the female wrestlers to get destroyed by their male counterparts.  If they trained and competed against men, I expect a few women to be competitive in a few years against men in the lighter weights  100 to 120 pounds.

I know this is only at the high school level, and I know North Carolina is not a top tier state, but I am very impressed by a female winning a state championship.  It's an amazing accomplishment and I don't any of you would have believed it can happen if someone had predicted it

Jimmy Cinnabon, he’s the resident reject poster on this forum. With that being said imo this is just a really stupid take, they should stay in their own division. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

Jimmy Cinnabon, he’s the resident reject poster on this forum. With that being said imo this is just a really stupid take, they should stay in their own division. 

You are entitled to your opinion.

do you think the girl who just won the state high school championship in NC should have only wrestled girls and stayed in the girls division?

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my general feeling:

I am 100% interested in more women wrestling if they want to.  I have been entertained by a lot of women's matches I have seen.

That said, I am 0% interested in seeing men and women wrestle each other.  It's not something I have ever been interested in any athletic competition.  This doesn't mean women can't be great or beat men, I'm just not interested in watching it.

I get that sometimes it is a necessity if there aren't enough women to compete with if you want to wrestle.

This video that came in my recommendation seemed appropriate.  I don't speak French, but I got the gist the mom didn't want the girl to wrestle initially.  She is only shown wrestling other girls though.

 

Edited by MonagFam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, irani said:

You are entitled to your opinion.

do you think the girl who just won the state high school championship in NC should have only wrestled girls and stayed in the girls division?

 

 

 

 

No.  If your point is that women should be allowed to try out for the men’s freestyle team, sure why not.   But highly doubtful they’d ever make the team in any top country. 

I mean when Maroulis won the Olympics I think there was a thread on here claiming she’d get beat by above average high school kids.  I wouldn’t go that far, but against the best in the country/world?  Doubt it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I've seen it all on this board......

The scary part about this is that the poster can only be 1 of the following....

1). Has the IQ of a potato 

2). The greatest troll of all time. 

I'm hoping for the sanity of this board....and the world for that matter that it's #2. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/28/2020 at 6:53 AM, MrDream said:

Now I've seen it all on this board......

The scary part about this is that the poster can only be 1 of the following....

1). Has the IQ of a potato 

2). The greatest troll of all time. 

I'm hoping for the sanity of this board....and the world for that matter that it's #2. 

When you disagree with someone, there is not a need to insult them

30 years ago,  I was dead against girls wrestling boys in High School.  I said girls would be injured, they wouldn't stand a chance, only a sadist would want to see this.

Based on the few girls who have won state championships at the high school, I was proven wrong.

I will admit this seems to happen only at the lightest weights, presumably because the  muscle mass difference is not significant, but it has happened, I was wrong!

I believe some day, there may be a woman who is the best wrestler in the 100 lb division, if they had such a weight in Freestyle

This whole discussion is hypothetical anyway, since even if the US agreed to is, I doubt UWW would ever allow it.

I have said all I am going to say, apparently most of you disagree, I respect your opinions.

 

Edited by irani

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...