Jump to content
irani

Women wrestling, my very controversial opinion

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, fightingsioux said:

Why have the posts in this thread degenerated into discussing whether or not a female wrestler defeated a male wrestler? Instead of vehemently disagreeing with the ridiculous premise of the OP, that woman cannot and should not wrestle? Women wrestle other women.

Yes, usually males are stronger than females of the same weight. Most people learn that by the age of 10. For those stressing that point--brilliant discovery.

Yes, usually male wrestlers are stronger than female wrestlers of the same weight. I repeat--brilliant discovery.

And male soccer players are stronger than female soccer players: women should not play soccer.

Male runners, jumpers and throwers are stronger than women runners, jumpers and throwers. Women should not do track & field.

Male golfers, tennis players, hockey players, swimmers, skiers, boxers, martial artists, weightlifters, kayakers, gymnasts, archers, volleyball players, basketball players, skateboarders, surfers, mountain climbers, cyclists, equestrians, triathletes, figure skaters, bobsledders, pool players, bowlers, shooters, lacrosse players, divers, rowers, auto racers, dart throwers and friggin' frisbee players are stronger than their female counterparts.

Women should not do any of these sports.

Oh, wait a minute. I just realized something. Should members of a culture that arrests women for  posting selfies or dancing in public be seriously listened to when they give their opinions on women in sports? Should we forget that in their culture women must hide their hair, legally obey their husbands, can't leave the country without permission of their husbands, can be arrested and jailed for holding hands with a man in public, have their testimony in court legally worth half that of a man, and in general live their entire lives as second-class citizens?

Gee, I don't think so.

So a man from Iran doesn't think that women should wrestle. I'm shocked.

 

 

you totally blew this one...

my suspicion is that it says considerably more about you than you would ever admit anywhere outside of a rally...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, LJB said:

you totally blew this one...

my suspicion is that it says considerably more about you than you would ever admit anywhere outside of a rally...

Don't really know what the hell you're talking about but as a lifelong wrestler and the father of two sons and two daughters all of them athletes and warriors I hope it says exactly who I am.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, fightingsioux said:

Don't really know what the hell you're talking about but as a lifelong wrestler and the father of two sons and two daughters all of them athletes and warriors I hope it says exactly who I am.

go back and re-read OP's post...

but, this time, really read it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

I got the impression that the 'response' was pointed at the poster of the top of page 3???  

if that is the case, then my apologies...

i kinda figured everyone just ignored that fool...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

I got the impression that the 'response' was pointed at the poster of the top of page 3???  

I don't think so!

 

His last three paragraphs make it clear who he is responding to

1 hour ago, fightingsioux said:

 

Oh, wait a minute. I just realized something. Should members of a culture that arrests women for  posting selfies or dancing in public be seriously listened to when they give their opinions on women in sports? Should we forget that in their culture women must hide their hair, legally obey their husbands, can't leave the country without permission of their husbands, can be arrested and jailed for holding hands with a man in public, have their testimony in court legally worth half that of a man, and in general live their entire lives as second-class citizens?

Gee, I don't think so.

So a man from Iran doesn't think that women should wrestle. I'm shocked.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, irani said:

I don't think so!

 

His last three paragraphs make it clear who he is responding to

 

i would agree with you...

just know that he is more than likely wearing camo or all white and should not be paid attention to...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, fightingsioux said:

 Instead of vehemently disagreeing with the ridiculous premise of the OP, that woman cannot and should not wrestle?

 

I never said women cannot and should not wrestle.  I said the opposite, I said women should be allowed to wrestle men 

 

15 hours ago, fightingsioux said:

Oh, wait a minute. I just realized something. Should members of a culture that arrests women for  posting selfies or dancing in public be seriously listened to when they give their opinions on women in sports? Should we forget that in their culture women must hide their hair, legally obey their husbands, can't leave the country without permission of their husbands, can be arrested and jailed for holding hands with a man in public, hav

 

 

 

While it's true that the imposed government mistreats women, that is not the culture of Iran.  Also, Iranian women are good athletes, and while they do not wrestle, they have done quite well in taeKwondo, Wushu and other sports.

16 hours ago, fightingsioux said:

 

So a man from Iran doesn't think that women should wrestle. I'm shocked.

 

 

Actually, a man from iran  thinks women should wrestle men, that probably really does shock you

Let me leave you with two pieces of advice:

1. Improve your reading comprehension.  You read a simple paragraph and completely misunderstood what it said.  There are adult reading classes you can take to improve your comprehension. 

2. Open up your mind.  There are others who disagreed with what I actually wrote,  I ended up have a good discussion with most of them, they presented some facts that I was not aware of, and I presented some facts in support of my position.  We may still disagree, but I learned from them.  In your case, after you completely misunderstood what I wrote, you then jumped to my national origin and blamed your misunderstood conclusion on my nationality.  This is a sign of a very closed mind.  Try socializing with people who have  different nationalities religions, and races than you.  It will open up your eyes and mind.  Try interacting with people who are not Trump Supporters, you may still disagree with them, but you will still there are some good people among them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Though perhaps dated, I actually have some pretty good insight on how elite level women wrestlers do against male high school wrestlers:

In high school I wrestled for a very well known coach who got really involved in the US women’s national teams (senior level). This was in the late 1990’s when women’s wrestling in the US was really just getting going. Certain members of the team came and trained in our room for stretches every now and then. 

I was a good high school wrestler in a tough wrestling state in the Midwest. Not elite or nationally ranked at my weight but 35+ wins and single digit loses. I was average strength though, not someone who relied on strength or power as an advantage. I’m not bragging I’m just trying to give you an accurate picture of where I was at the time because it’s relevant to this discussion. 

When I wrestled members of the US women’s national team it wasn’t competitive...not even close. I could essentially tech any of them in a timeframe of my choosing. They only started coming to train in our room when I was a junior or senior in high school, so I was post pubescent. I was probably 145-155 pounds at the time so I was wrestling the women’s upper weights. I fully recognize that this was at the very beginning of women’s wrestling in the US and our elite women today are likely light years better. However, it’s my personal belief - based on my actual experience - that technique will never close the physical gap. Mind you my only experience wrestling elite senior level women was in high school and I went on to become much, much stronger in college. 

I’m not sharing this to knock women’s wrestling (or female athletes in general)...but I think it’s an interesting anecdote to the conversation about how elite senior level women would do against good high school wrestlers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MDogg said:

Though perhaps dated, I actually have some pretty good insight on how elite level women wrestlers do against male high school wrestlers:

In high school I wrestled for a very well known coach who got really involved in the US women’s national teams (senior level). This was in the late 1990’s when women’s wrestling in the US was really just getting going. Certain members of the team came and trained in our room for stretches every now and then. 

I was a good high school wrestler in a tough wrestling state in the Midwest. Not elite or nationally ranked at my weight but 35+ wins and single digit loses. I was average strength though, not someone who relied on strength or power as an advantage. I’m not bragging I’m just trying to give you an accurate picture of where I was at the time because it’s relevant to this discussion. 

When I wrestled members of the US women’s national team it wasn’t competitive...not even close. I could essentially tech any of them in a timeframe of my choosing. They only started coming to train in our room when I was a junior or senior in high school, so I was post pubescent. I was probably 145-155 pounds at the time so I was wrestling the women’s upper weights. I fully recognize that this was at the very beginning of women’s wrestling in the US and our elite women today are likely light years better. However, it’s my personal belief - based on my actual experience - that technique will never close the physical gap. Mind you my only experience wrestling elite senior level women was in high school and I went on to become much, much stronger in college. 

I’m not sharing this to knock women’s wrestling (or female athletes in general)...but I think it’s an interesting anecdote to the conversation about how elite senior level women would do against good high school wrestlers. 

I am not surprised by the facts you shared.  I believe an elite women wrestler only has a chance to be competitive in the very light weights.  If they still had a 48 Kg class, I think some of the women might have a shot at being competitive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my oldest wrestled with victoria anthony at the OTC when he 13... it was in the fall/winter after his second year of schoolboys... for reference, he won schoolboy nationals in free and 3rd in greco that summer at 98...

i wasn't there, but, i heard about it... he didn't know who she was and thought he was just going to wreck some chik... he got surprised at how good she was and realized he was going to actually have to wrestle... my understanding was it was about a 60/40 live go... and she absolutely destroyed the other kid that was there with them...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Alwayswrestling said:

Stop this  nonsense talk women would not be competitive at any weight against men.

no, but some of them are good enough to push high level kids and destroy average HS boys...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, fightingsioux said:

Why have the posts in this thread degenerated into discussing whether or not a female wrestler defeated a male wrestler? Instead of vehemently disagreeing with the ridiculous premise of the OP, that woman cannot and should not wrestle? Women wrestle other women.

Yes, usually males are stronger than females of the same weight. Most people learn that by the age of 10. For those stressing that point--brilliant discovery.

Yes, usually male wrestlers are stronger than female wrestlers of the same weight. I repeat--brilliant discovery.

And male soccer players are stronger than female soccer players: women should not play soccer.

Male runners, jumpers and throwers are stronger than women runners, jumpers and throwers. Women should not do track & field.

Male golfers, tennis players, hockey players, swimmers, skiers, boxers, martial artists, weightlifters, kayakers, gymnasts, archers, volleyball players, basketball players, skateboarders, surfers, mountain climbers, cyclists, equestrians, triathletes, figure skaters, bobsledders, pool players, bowlers, shooters, lacrosse players, divers, rowers, auto racers, dart throwers and friggin' frisbee players are stronger than their female counterparts.

Women should not do any of these sports.

Oh, wait a minute. I just realized something. Should members of a culture that arrests women for  posting selfies or dancing in public be seriously listened to when they give their opinions on women in sports? Should we forget that in their culture women must hide their hair, legally obey their husbands, can't leave the country without permission of their husbands, can be arrested and jailed for holding hands with a man in public, have their testimony in court legally worth half that of a man, and in general live their entire lives as second-class citizens?

Gee, I don't think so.

So a man from Iran doesn't think that women should wrestle. I'm shocked.

 

 

1). "Ridiculous premise". Most people with an average IQ would agree that the real ridiculous premise would urge wrestling to become co-ed. 

2). The remaining drivel you spew is where I get lost. I don't remember reading (or posting) anyone stating that women shouldn't wrestle (or play any other sports for that matter). I believe the OG poster stated that he believes women should wrestle against men and women at lighter weights would fare better. The opposition stated multiple points (competitiveness, safety, etc...) on why they disagreed. Then a woman at the D1 level beating a man at the D1 level was brought up. Not one person stated a woman shouldn't participate in wrestling. Not one. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MrDream said:

1). "Ridiculous premise". Most people with an average IQ would agree that the real ridiculous premise would urge wrestling to become co-ed. 

2). The remaining drivel you spew is where I get lost. I don't remember reading (or posting) anyone stating that women shouldn't wrestle (or play any other sports for that matter). I believe the OG poster stated that he believes women should wrestle against men and women at lighter weights would fare better. The opposition stated multiple points (competitiveness, safety, etc...) on why they disagreed. Then a woman at the D1 level beating a man at the D1 level was brought up. Not one person stated a woman shouldn't participate in wrestling. Not one. 

 

 

 

You summarized the thread very well!

 

Edited by irani

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Absolutely none of what you said is related to Title IX. Maybe you should look it up before you address it. 

This is what you are saying here: You are happy that there is a girls state championship because you had to wrestle a girl once and it was awkward. Also something about religion and Iran and how some guys refuse to wrestle women. From that you would think you'd be a huge proponent for women's wrestling where they compete with each other. However you conclude by saying it's a mans sport. 

Maybe you want to rethink this whole post. I would love to disagree with you, but at this point your argument is so poorly structured that I can't see your point. Are you happy about a women's state title? You think its a mans sport? What are you actually trying to say?

Yes I am glad it finally came to my state. I don’t think women should wrestle though, period. It is at the cost of men’s scholarships, at the collegiate level that some colleges have women’s programs. That’s where Title IX came from in my post. It takes away from men’s opportunities at the Olympic level. Compared to men, it is boring. Does any basketball fan get fired up for the WNBA? Very few. This isn’t a doctorate thesis. Work on your reading comprehension.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/5/2020 at 3:06 AM, RajaThaiKnee said:


Yes I am glad it finally came to my state. I don’t think women should wrestle though, period. It is at the cost of men’s scholarships, at the collegiate level that some colleges have women’s programs. That’s where Title IX came from in my post. It takes away from men’s opportunities at the Olympic level. Compared to men, it is boring. Does any basketball fan get fired up for the WNBA? Very few. This isn’t a doctorate thesis. Work on your reading comprehension.

Scholarships are paid through tax payer dollars. Its not driven through market forces and it shouldnt be. Professional basketball is. 

Oh and dont worry. I never confused your post with any kind of legitimate thought since it is such a stupid take on things.

Edited by russelscout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, RajaThaiKnee said:


Yes I am glad it finally came to my state. I don’t think women should wrestle though, period. It is at the cost of men’s scholarships, at the collegiate level that some colleges have women’s programs. That’s where Title IX came from in my post. It takes away from men’s opportunities at the Olympic level. Compared to men, it is boring. Does any basketball fan get fired up for the WNBA? Very few. This isn’t a doctorate thesis. Work on your reading comprehension.

Lol yes let’s give football more scholarships bc 85 isn’t enough. And compared to soccer, wrestling is sooo boring. It’s a niche sport and no one watches it anyway. Let’s defund it globally and remove wrestling from the Olympics so we can support soccer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, pamela said:

Lol yes let’s give football more scholarships bc 85 isn’t enough. And compared to soccer, wrestling is sooo boring. It’s a niche sport and no one watches it anyway. Let’s defund it globally and remove wrestling from the Olympics so we can support soccer.

@pamela, Come on now, no need to pick on soccer...  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scholarships are paid through tax payer dollars. Its not driven through market forces and it shouldnt be. Professional basketball is. 
Oh and dont worry. I never confused your post with any kind of legitimate thought since it is such a stupid take on things.


Yes and I am a taxpayer, so I have to pay for women to wrestle at the expense of men getting scholarships FOR wrestling.
Men are more exciting.... that goes for wrestling and basketball. Do I really need to go into anatomical and physiological differences between men and women for you to understand why men can do more explosive techniques,and are faster and stronger I was using basketball as an example. Think of it this way: The pinnacle of women’s wrestling is the World/Olympic level. Now how many people tune in for men’s wrestling compared to women at the world/Olympic level? A very low percentage.
Haha....First post you say I’m stupid because you can’t understand what I am saying. And now I’m stupid because I believe men’s wrestling is a better product to watch. But more importantly I do not like the fact that women who have wrestled for a year getting a scholarship, and a man who has devoted his life to it and has a much higher winning percentage can not get one.
Now that I’ve spelled it out for you do you understand? You can think what you want about my opinion or “stupid take” differs from you, but I am not the only one with that opinion. So...go ahead and get personal and tell me how stupid I am. I’ll take the high road and let you have the last word. Enjoy trying to tear down my character, integrity with your oh so brilliant pithy comeback. Tell me how stupid I am while you are at....I’ll be eating comfort food.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lol yes let’s give football more scholarships bc 85 isn’t enough. And compared to soccer, wrestling is sooo boring. It’s a niche sport and no one watches it anyway. Let’s defund it globally and remove wrestling from the Olympics so we can support soccer.


Please read the reply above. That should clear things up. Thank you for being classy and not making it personal like a lot of people these days. I know the view is not popular to women, and other people. I mean this in all sincerity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, RajaThaiKnee said:
On 3/5/2020 at 7:45 AM, russelscout said:
Scholarships are paid through tax payer dollars. Its not driven through market forces and it shouldnt be. Professional basketball is. 
Oh and dont worry. I never confused your post with any kind of legitimate thought since it is such a stupid take on things.

 


Yes and I am a taxpayer, so I have to pay for women to wrestle at the expense of men getting scholarships FOR wrestling.
Men are more exciting.... that goes for wrestling and basketball. Do I really need to go into anatomical and physiological differences between men and women for you to understand why men can do more explosive techniques,and are faster and stronger I was using basketball as an example. Think of it this way: The pinnacle of women’s wrestling is the World/Olympic level. Now how many people tune in for men’s wrestling compared to women at the world/Olympic level? A very low percentage.

 

In all honesty, how many tune in for wrestling in general? Not many. As far as men being more explosive athletes? Thats true, but womens gymnastics is one of the most watched sports in the Olympics. Maybe all those mens sports should be taken out bc obviously women's gymnastics are what the people want to watch.

 

3 hours ago, RajaThaiKnee said:

Haha....First post you say I’m stupid because you can’t understand what I am saying. And now I’m stupid because I believe men’s wrestling is a better product to watch. But more importantly I do not like the fact that women who have wrestled for a year getting a scholarship, and a man who has devoted his life to it and has a much higher winning percentage can not get one.

Yes, I didnt understand what you said in your first post. Thats not my fault. 

As far as the scholarships go, womens wrestling is new. The problem you are describing = growing pains.

3 hours ago, RajaThaiKnee said:

Now that I’ve spelled it out for you do you understand? You can think what you want about my opinion or “stupid take” differs from you, but I am not the only one with that opinion. So...go ahead and get personal and tell me how stupid I am. I’ll take the high road and let you have the last word. Enjoy trying to tear down my character, integrity with your oh so brilliant pithy comeback. Tell me how stupid I am while you are at....I’ll be eating comfort food.

I understand what you are saying now. Thanks for clarifying. Lets get a few things straight though. I didnt call your take stupid because you disagree with me. I called it stupid because I think its stupid. 

Its awfully myopic to not see that allowing the other half of the population to wrestle is a good thing in the long run.

One last thing, I never attacked your character, only your intelligence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...