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Taylor better than Burroughs in College?

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[Relax big guy, it's only an opinion.

 

Burroughs beat Leen and Howe, both returning national champs while in college.

 

If Taylor is able to beat a returning national champ, I'll adjust my (personal) thoughts.

 

There wasn't any pun intended in my reply. I was just simply stating/asking... How much more dominant can Taylor be? That's all. For anyone that thinks Burroughs would beat DT, that's perfectly legit. My beef is just those that think either would dominate the other.

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It matters not how many posts I have posted. I have wrestled and watched wrestling for many many years. Bouroughs was very good in college, but Taylor is a one in a million special. If he beats Dake tonight, maybe in discussion for the best ever. Burroughs has been perfectly suited for the Olympic Style. In college Taylor wins and considering his tremendous mat advantage, probably with bonus points and a pin.

 

David Taylor would beat Burroughs by a major or pin? I like Taylor, I really do, but come on guys.

 

How in the world is Taylor in the discussion for "best ever" if he beats Dake tonight?

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Rodney, with most of your posts it seems you are a fan of the sport, but never participated, or don't really understand it. Transitive property doesn't work in wrestling, period. If you can't grasp this, I can help you.

For the dope who made the comment about NJ knee jerk reactions, most of the people here laughing at the thought of JB losing to Taylor as a senior aren't from NJ, idiot.

 

As underclassmen, I'd take Taylor. JB as a senior was already likely the best wrestler on the planet at his weight. We won a world title months after beating Howe (who, btw, might beat Dake or Taylor, and has repeatedly in Free).

You're not talking about a ten year gap, this was only two years ago. Burroughs just won back to back world titles (including Olympic gold) at a weight where Rodney's superhero competed for the spot, and didn't come close. JB has been pummeling on Dake in the practice room for two years. Dominating him, taking him down whenever he wants.

Anyone who would take either of these two, over Burroughs as a senior is foolish. Pointless to argue, but JB has already accomplished something these two likely never will do, he has proven to be the best in the world at this weight.

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Good enough Rodney.

 

I don't think either would dominate the other. I just can't say which would win.

 

But Burroughs increase in ability from his soph to junior year, then junior to senior was pretty incredible.

 

Taylor may have that same kind of updside and change in ability. But with Dake there it's difficult to determine. I don't know if a sr Burroughs beats a senior Dake.

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It matters not how many posts I have posted. I have wrestled and watched wrestling for many many years. Bouroughs was very good in college, but Taylor is a one in a million special. If he beats Dake tonight, maybe in discussion for the best ever. Burroughs has been perfectly suited for the Olympic Style. In college Taylor wins and considering his tremendous mat advantage, probably with bonus points and a pin.

 

David Taylor would beat Burroughs by a major or pin? I like Taylor, I really do, but come on guys.

 

How in the world is Taylor in the discussion for "best ever" if he beats Dake tonight?

 

Don't say guys, more like guy. I am withholding judgement as to who would win as I think it would be classic. Two all time great offensive wrestlers. No, I don't think Taylor would pin or major him.

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Good enough Rodney.

 

I don't think either would dominate the other. I just can't say which would win.

 

But Burroughs increase in ability from his soph to junior year, then junior to senior was pretty incredible.

 

Taylor may have that same kind of updside and change in ability. But with Dake there it's difficult to determine. I don't know if a sr Burroughs beats a senior Dake.

 

I could not agree more! Spot on.

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JB would take him down, and likely cut him. 4-1 after the 1st, if Taylor is lucky. 2nd period, JB takes down, escapes, another TD. 7-1. DT takes down in the 3rd, escapes, 7-2, possibly 9-2 JB.

 

That's how it would play out, over and over and over.

 

If JB is taking down Tsargush multiple times in a match (a couple of months out of college), you don't think he dominates Taylor? :lol:

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Rodney, with most of your posts it seems you are a fan of the sport, but never participated, or don't really understand it. Transitive property doesn't work in wrestling, period. If you can't grasp this, I can help you.

For the dope who made the comment about NJ knee jerk reactions, most of the people here laughing at the thought of JB losing to Taylor as a senior aren't from NJ, idiot.

 

As underclassmen, I'd take Taylor. JB as a senior was already likely the best wrestler on the planet at his weight. We won a world title months after beating Howe (who, btw, might beat Dake or Taylor, and has repeatedly in Free).

You're not talking about a ten year gap, this was only two years ago. Burroughs just won back to back world titles (including Olympic gold) at a weight where Rodney's superhero competed for the spot, and didn't come close. JB has been pummeling on Dake in the practice room for two years. Dominating him, taking him down whenever he wants.

Anyone who would take either of these two, over Burroughs as a senior is foolish. Pointless to argue, but JB has already accomplished something these two likely never will do, he has proven to be the best in the world at this weight.

 

You're question my participation or understanding of the sport because I don't agree Taylor would get dominated. Let me say this again...

I have NO complaints about someone saying JB would win. Rightfully so - he was dominant his senior year. However, DT in college has been equally as dominant thus far. I honestly don't believe Taylor would come even close to being dominated. Just my opinion.

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JB would take him down, and likely cut him. 4-1 after the 1st, if Taylor is lucky. 2nd period, JB takes down, escapes, another TD. 7-1. DT takes down in the 3rd, escapes, 7-2, possibly 9-2 JB.

 

That's how it would play out, over and over and over.

 

If JB is taking down Tsargush multiple times in a match (a couple of months out of college), you don't think he dominates Taylor? :lol:

So how do all the matches from tonight go?

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Rodney, I'm not questioning you because you think DT would win or lose vs JB. I am because you place so much value on A beats B by 10, and C beats B by 5, so A must be better than C.

 

Oldy, tell me where I have holes in that scenario. If JB is dominating the best in the world when he essentially walked out of college, what would he do to these two (he'd do to them what he already does, dominate them). He beats them up RIGHT NOW. If you don't believe this, dig up some of the stories from the OTC, when he would play with Dake (who is better than DT). Dake, who no one can score on, gets taken down at will by JB, and it's been that way since months after JB left school.

 

The only analogy I can give is when guys that were good HS wrestlers have a hard time believing that their buddy the state champ would get dominated in the college room. There are different levels, and JB is at the highest, and has been basically since at least his senior year of college. Dake and Taylor are not at that level yet, and it's not likely they'll EVER be an elite, world class wrestler.

 

Dake is far more likely to get there, IMO.

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Guys, Taylor is an incredibly talented wrestler. But is the best evidence we have is that he beat Caldwell worse than Burroughs did.... This isnt little league baseball here! The argument should be is Taylor better than Dake not Burroughs. We will find that out tonight. I think it might be close (with Burroughs winning) but not based off any of your arguments lets take a closer look at Burroughs...

 

Burroughs may have not beaten Caldwell worse but in 2009 he:

Majored C. Sanders

Majored returning NCAA Champions Gregor Gillespie

(- who oh by the way, the match before had just beat the following years champ JP O'Connor)

He easily handled Mike Poeta in the Finals

Also in the bracket:

Returning National Champion Jordan Leen

UFC and MMA studs: Chas Pami (following year finalist) and Mike Chandler

 

Are we to believe that Taylor would be major/pinning any of these guys... doubtful? My how soon we forget!

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In the history of this sport, has there ever been more of an offensive juggernaut than DT? I'm not saying he is the best offensive ever, I am simply asking as I can't date back as far as some of the old timers.

 

Statistically, yes. If we consider his scoring within the context of his era, he's on the top tier with others. And I go back a long way.

 

Edit: But, I would like to see Taylor show his offensive "juggernaut" status against more elite competition before I personally feel comfortable placing him with the other greats. To me, Cael was clearly more of a juggernaut than Taylor, because I know he could do it against the best.

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Oldy, tell me where I have holes in that scenario. If JB is dominating the best in the world when he essentially walked out of college,

The tournament before JB beat Caldwell in the finals at NCAA's didn't he beat him something like 4-1 ay big5s?

 

If he wasn't the cut and release Stephan Abas type in those matches why (and how) would he be against Taylor?

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I know the conf match was close, but Caldwell did a ton of stalling in that match. He majored him in the NCAA finals, right?

Again, where does DT get his points vs JB? You know JB is getting his 3 Tds, period. At least. Also an escape (or two, if necessary). Where does DT get his points? They could wrestle for a month and DT wouldn't get a takedown.

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The thing that makes Taylor appear very dominant is that he has a style that crushes lesser opponents, whereas Dake and Burroughs have styles that have a higher "ceiling", if you will. Someone on another thread said something about being great at Super Mario Brothers until level 8, and as comical as that was, the analogy does apply here. Burroughs can win Super Mario Bros and Dake can get past level 8.

 

The fact that Taylor can stick Yates while Burroughs might "only" major him and Dake might "just" blank him doesn't help Taylor at all when he gets to level 8.

 

Burroughs did minimal adjusting after his senior year to win the worlds. He used the same go-to moves to beat literally the best wrestlers in the world that he did to dominate (in his own way) in college.

 

While this is just an opinion, I think Burroughs as a folkstyle junior or senior would beat Taylor and never be behind in the match. If I were a coach, I would pick Taylor over Burroughs and Dake as a tournament wrestler every time because he can kill everyone except the very best guys any day. But if I''m putting together an All-Star dual meet team, I choose Burroughs first, Dake second, and Taylor third.

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The thing that makes Taylor appear very dominant is that he has a style that crushes lesser opponents, whereas Dake and Burroughs have styles that have a higher "ceiling", if you will.

 

Bro, he crushes everyone besides the guy that is considered by some to have the greatest career ever. What do you mean lesser opponents. Everyone...

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I don't understand the logic. He can't even beat Dake, how would he beat JB? Yes he's killing average wrestlers, but better than JB? Nah. People are obviously trolling.

 

One person (The Missouri guy) saud he would beat JB. I, along with some others said we honestly don't know.

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JB has been pummeling on Dake in the practice room for two years. Dominating him, taking him down whenever he wants...

 

He beats them up RIGHT NOW. If you don't believe this, dig up some of the stories from the OTC, when he would play with Dake (who is better than DT). Dake, who no one can score on, gets taken down at will by JB, and it's been that way since months after JB left school.

Do you know where I could find these stories from the OTC? I'm not saying I doubt you one bit - I have no reason not to believe that JB doesn't dominate Dake - but I'm wondering if these are just word-of-mouth stories or actual articles/videos that I could see for myself.

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Burroughs style would be easier to slow down at the college level than internationally. The way the rules are, a college wrestler can play the edge and possibly mitigate Burroughs doubles. Although, nothing would be easy against Burroughs.

 

But Internationally they give up the same "1" on a pushout as a take down. Therefore they can't play the edge.

 

If a sophomore Caldwell could slow Burroughs down once (or twice, don't know what happened in the dual, if they wrestled), a senior Taylor could likely do the same.

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Burroughs style would be easier to slow down at the college level than internationally. The way the rules are, a college wrestler can play the edge and possibly mitigate Burroughs doubles. Although, nothing would be easy against Burroughs.

 

But Internationally they give up the same "1" on a pushout as a take down. Therefore they can't play the edge.

 

If a sophomore Caldwell could slow Burroughs down once (or twice, don't know what happened in the dual, if they wrestled), a senior Taylor could likely do the same.

 

I agree. And I don't buy into the 'Caldwell degressed' argument. And not saying DT would turn JB or anything, but he could definitely slice quite a bit of time on the clock if he can put a good ride together as he did with Dake.

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