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Blue Dragons

Downey (Wrestling) vs Ryan (BJJ)

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First match is no time limit grappling ending only by submission and the second match is international freestyle wrestling. 

https://www.fite.tv/watch/bjj-fanatics-ryan-vs-downey/2p649/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=linktree&utm_campaign=bjj%20fanatics&fbclid=IwAR3BDnzZvOcD66TWHCwBtdL1-3_m7iOprL3hFY0L3RRb68mfGyJ62chGKfw

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Blue Dragons said:

First match is no time limit grappling ending only by submission and the second match is international freestyle wrestling. 

https://www.fite.tv/watch/bjj-fanatics-ryan-vs-downey/2p649/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=linktree&utm_campaign=bjj%20fanatics&fbclid=IwAR3BDnzZvOcD66TWHCwBtdL1-3_m7iOprL3hFY0L3RRb68mfGyJ62chGKfw

 

 

 

Very strange premise.. why would anyone think that a bjj would be anything but terrible at FS. Guard is the basic position in BJJ and gives up continuous back exposure in FS. It would be like penalizing a wrestler two points for every time they did a collar tie on their feet. 

 

Downey should tech him in less than a minute.  How is he going to stop being taken down and once on the mat being gutted or laced  The only thing that might be interesting is if Ryan locks up with Downey and goes flying

I also hope that Downey is not spending training time learning high level BJJ defending back takes or heel hooks. There's an Olympics coming up and he is supposed to be one of our top prospects

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26 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Very strange premise.. why would anyone think that a bjj would be anything but terrible at FS. Guard is the basic position in BJJ and gives up continuous back exposure in FS. It would be like penalizing a wrestler two points for every time they did a collar tie on their feet. 

 

Downey should tech him in less than a minute.  How is he going to stop being taken down and once on the mat being gutted or laced  The only thing that might be interesting is if Ryan locks up with Downey and goes flying

I also hope that Downey is not spending training time learning high level BJJ defending back takes or heel hooks. There's an Olympics coming up and he is supposed to be one of our top prospects

Haha good one, he’s barely a prospect to make the national team.

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24 minutes ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

Haha good one, he’s barely a prospect to make the national team.

He went to Worlds last year; like him or not, he's one of our top prospects at 86.

And if anything happens to DT, any one of 4-5 guys, Downey included, could end up the rep.

I think I'd favor Zahid, but Downey's absolutely a contender.

As for the competition discussed, however, I agree.  Each is likely to get smashed in the other's discipline.

Edited by whaletail

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Gordon Ryan and Downey train together semi regularly. Downey trains weekly with Nick Rodriguez who is one of Gordon’s main training partners. 
  
Gordon still is claiming he will win the freestyle match. I think he is delusional, but I respect that he is going in saying he will win, even after training with Downey. Makes it way more compelling.   
  
for the record, I’ve spoken to Gordon about his wrestling and he is a bit delusional about it even in private. He thinks he is much better than he is at it. To his credit he does train somewhat regularly with Mocco and talks openly about how badly he gets worked and how much he has to learn. 
  
He is a phenom in BJJ but he doesn’t have the attributes or the time commitment to be a good wrestler. 

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17 minutes ago, whaletail said:

He went to Worlds last year; like him or not, he's one of our top prospects at 86.

And if anything happens to DT, any one of 4-5 guys, Downey included, could end up the rep.

I think I'd favor Zahid, but Downey's absolutely a contender.

As for the competition discussed, however, I agree.  Each is likely to get smashed in the other's discipline.

How deep does your list go to consider “a top contender”? Imo Downey is around 5th on my list at best. Taylor, Zahid, Ringer and Martin are favorites over Downey at this time. I limit my contenders to the top 3 at 86kg.

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Do these types of events ever help wrestling?  Is some BJJ practitioner going to sit back and think I want to get into freestyle wrestling after watching that half of the match?

What would happen of Gordon somehow won the freestyle event, lr is it just too niche to havs an impact?  

I am actually more interested in the discussion of the participants cross training than the actual event.

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2 hours ago, Shiraz123 said:

Why not just pay two wrestlers to have a wrestling match that people want to see? lol. 

We've had a bunch of these types of events in the US (AGON is the one that is coming to mind) and I don't think any of them got enough buys/interest to be profitable long term.   This brings in people from both fanbases, worth a shot...

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2 hours ago, MonagFam said:

Do these types of events ever help wrestling?  Is some BJJ practitioner going to sit back and think I want to get into freestyle wrestling after watching that half of the match?

What would happen of Gordon somehow won the freestyle event, lr is it just too niche to havs an impact?  

I am actually more interested in the discussion of the participants cross training than the actual event.

BJJ might have more fans that wrestling, and certainly has a much stronger fan base in South America and Europe. In North America they are probably comparable with a slight edge to wrestling. 
  
these crossover matches definitely help. Also worth noting that many of the top kid BJJ Americans are really good age level wrestlers. They love seeing this stuff too as they understand both sports. 

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35 minutes ago, pamela said:

$20 seems like a steep PPV given that they prob won’t be going at 100% since Pan Ams and trials are just around the corner. He’s not going to risk injury over some circus event.

He said he would tap quickly to leg locks, which is Gordon’s specialty. 
  
Gordon was also very careful against Bo not to cause injury. He is extremely technical and has excellent understanding of exactly how much pressure to apply to it cause injury. 
   
Downey and Gordon are friendly, if not friends. They have no interest in hurting each other and derailing their careers. They will go hard, but not dangerously so

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For combat sports, this concept is as old as the hills.

The ancient Greeks said that two wrestlers would wrestle, two boxers would box, that was that. From there, every conceivable combination has devolved.

The Romans said let's have a wrestler against a boxer. Let's wrap the boxer's hands, let's give them weapons, let's have them fight animals, on and on.

There is no combination of martial artists that has not been done. It's always seemed a bit silly to me, cheap and sleazy really, like reducing a noble discipline to a carnival sideshow. What next for Downey, wrestle a bear?

 

Edited by fightingsioux
change

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1 minute ago, Housebuye said:

He said he would tap quickly to leg locks, which is Gordon’s specialty. 
  
Gordon was also very careful against Bo not to cause injury. He is extremely technical and has excellent understanding of exactly how much pressure to apply to it cause injury. 
   
Downey and Gordon are friendly, if not friends. They have no interest in hurting each other and derailing their careers. They will go hard, but not dangerously so

Thanks! That makes sense. I guess they will have to go pretty hard if it’s the main PPV event, but Nolf & Cenzo went full speed but not dangerously at the Bill Farrell(?) and look what happened. It just seems like silly timing for Downey to schedule something like this.

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3 minutes ago, pamela said:

Thanks! That makes sense. I guess they will have to go pretty hard if it’s the main PPV event, but Nolf & Cenzo went full speed but not dangerously at the Bill Farrell(?) and look what happened. It just seems like silly timing for Downey to schedule something like this.

He knows he’s made his only senior level team, he’s just trying to maximize his value. 

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2 minutes ago, pamela said:

Thanks! That makes sense. I guess they will have to go pretty hard if it’s the main PPV event, but Nolf & Cenzo went full speed but not dangerously at the Bill Farrell(?) and look what happened. It just seems like silly timing for Downey to schedule something like this.

Totally agree. To me it suggests he doesn’t believe he will make the team, which is likely accurate but also not a good mindset. 
  
I’m also speaking out my ass a bit as I’ve never been a high level athlete.

It does seem like an unnecessary risk. Nolf and Cenzo were competing against much better wrestlers though.

Gordon is not a good wrestler. BJJ doesn’t teach good wrestling for wrestling. 
 For example most wrestling takedowns put your neck at risk, so Gordon doesn’t take shots often. He has also never taken a shot I’ve been impressed with. Legitimately. His wrestling fundamentals are terrible. He doesn’t care though, as he just wants guys to engage. Nobody in BJJ can really hang with him unless they just play defense, so a bad shot turns into a win for Gordon. He has never had a need to be able to finish shots really, so he hasn’t developed that skill. 
  
He sometimes says stupid stuff. He recently mocked someone for asking if he would have a winning record in D1. I can assure you he would not, but he can make me look like an idiot if he wins tonight in wresting. I don’t know if there is a D1 starter he can beat. 

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1 hour ago, fightingsioux said:

There is no combination of martial artists that has not been done. It's always seemed a bit silly to me, cheap and sleazy really, like reducing a noble discipline to a carnival sideshow. What next for Downey, wrestle a bear?

Palmer already did that.

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3 hours ago, Shiraz123 said:

Why not just pay two wrestlers to have a wrestling match that people want to see? lol. 

If we've learned nothing at all from MMA, it's that the average American is not all that interested in seeing who the best is in a single discipline. This is why boxing is dying a very long and painful death. Americans, by and large, prefer these types cross-discipline contests to just a wrestling match or just a boxing match or just a BJJ match, etc., all between competitors from the same martial arts discipline.

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