Big 10 Preseeds release (Penn State)

[Marcus Cisero 340]

4 hours ago, fightingsioux said:

What do people see as the biggest potential upset (a lower seed winning it all)?

Not Steveson over Parris, I mean a true upset.

Sebastian Rivera

Shakur Rasheed

Edited March 3, 2020 by Marcus Cisero

[Schuteandscore 71]

4 hours ago, fightingsioux said:

What do people see as the biggest potential upset (a lower seed winning it all)?

Not Steveson over Parris, I mean a true upset.

Cole Martin or Rocky Jordan

[BigTenFanboy 1,710]

8 hours ago, JerryCallo said:

WOW - Parris got the #1 seed over Gable - surprising but it may not matter much - I really do not see either of them losing before the Finals. 

What sorts of things could cause these Pre-seeds to change before the Tourney starts?

 

8 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

failed drug test

Not paying off your gambling debts

[GreatWhiteNorth 176]

The original poster here is a lying cheat who doesn't pay off his debts. I'm thinking it'd be best to not respond to this thread any longer.

[TobusRex 1,866]

Looks pretty well seeded judging by the first post. The wrestler I think does much better than projected is Verkleeren.  Tough luck meeting Sasso in the QFs, but I think Verk finishes top 4 or 5.

[whaletail 202]

9 hours ago, Mphillips said:

100%

5-6 years ago, I thought he might be an NCAA champ by now, and certainly a multiple time AA.

It'll be tough, but I really hope he sees the podium this year.

[Ragu 51]

20 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Not THAT dangerous.

He finished 7th and 8th the last two years at NCAAs which is about where you would expect given his talent level and if you ignored his sub-par regular seasons. Then at Big 10's last year he got the most favorable possible draw by being on the same side of the bracket as Mike Carr (and opposite McKenna and Lee). Carr was the poster child for questionable seeding when he was given the #1 after not having wrestled McKenna or Lee. He then proceeded to drop three matches at Big 10s and two more at NCAAs and not AA.

I do feel bad for Red this year though. They gave him the 4 seed and Murin the 3. Red beat Murin head to head. And while Murin has fewer loses in the conference he did not take the mat against Pletcher or Lee this year. I think you can make the case that Red should have been the 3.

I know talent wise he's there but he doesn't show it during the regular season. Once March comes around he turns it on and he's hard to beat. Compare him to Spencer in the NCAA tournament. Despite some setbacks he goes out and dominates his competition. Once March hits Chad Red raises his game up to the next level. He has beat Nick Lee before (in high school) so I wouldn't be nearly as shocked as the rest of the country would be if he makes the finals or even ends up winning Big 10s...

[Wrestleknownothing 393]

44 minutes ago, Ragu said:

I know talent wise he's there but he doesn't show it during the regular season. Once March comes around he turns it on and he's hard to beat. Compare him to Spencer in the NCAA tournament. Despite some setbacks he goes out and dominates his competition. Once March hits Chad Red raises his game up to the next level. He has beat Nick Lee before (in high school) so I wouldn't be nearly as shocked as the rest of the country would be if he makes the finals or even ends up winning Big 10s...

I will go with some recency bias here and say if anyone but Pletcher or Lee wins the Big 10s I will be shocked. 

If you have to go back four years to find a data point (and pass over two opposite and increasingly lopsided data points in the pursuit) I feel good. That said, it sure isn't a 100% proposition. He is a very talented wrestler. I give Red a puncher's chance. For him to beat Lee and Pletcher he has to go big. I don't see him winning a take down battle.

[Ragu 51]

21 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I will go with some recency bias here and say if anyone but Pletcher or Lee wins the Big 10s I will be shocked. 

If you have to go back four years to find a data point (and pass over two opposite and increasingly lopsided data points in the pursuit) I feel good. That said, it sure isn't a 100% proposition. He is a very talented wrestler. I give Red a puncher's chance. For him to beat Lee and Pletcher he has to go big. I don't see him winning a take down battle.

To go way back again I think he beat Pletcher at WNO. I know recently he hasn't gotten it done and he's a longshot at this point but Chad Red goes super saiyan in the postseason. Not my pick but he's one to watch

[PSUMike 442]

I think the first 5 will be pretty chalky in terms of who comes out on top. My god, is 157 comically weak. 

165 - Flip a coin

174 - I think Hall pulls his head out of his ass and makes a statement here. 

184 - Whomever wins the Venz/Brooks semi will win. Lean Venz. 

197 - Moore

HWT - Gable

[1032004 896]

37 minutes ago, PSUMike said:

I think the first 5 will be pretty chalky in terms of who comes out on top. My god, is 157 comically weak. 

165 - Flip a coin

174 - I think Hall pulls his head out of his ass and makes a statement here. 

184 - Whomever wins the Venz/Brooks semi will win. Lean Venz. 

197 - Moore

HWT - Gable

Pretty impressive for the B10 if the #1 guy in the country and 4 total guys ranked in the top 8 nationally is “comically weak.”

[PSUMike 442]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Pretty impressive for the B10 if the #1 guy in the country and 4 total guys ranked in the top 8 nationally is “comically weak.”

Look at the talent for other years at the weight and tell me 157 is a strong weight this year. 

[1032004 896]

8 minutes ago, PSUMike said:

Look at the talent for other years at the weight and tell me 157 is a strong weight this year. 

I didn't say it was "strong," seems pretty average for a B10 weight.   But it's not "comically weak."

[PSUMike 442]

3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I didn't say it was "strong," seems pretty average for a B10 weight.   But it's not "comically weak."

Kaleb Young was ranked 3rd in the country for most of the year. If you think he's a top 3 caliber wrestler any year, I don't know what to tell ya. 

[1032004 896]

9 minutes ago, PSUMike said:

Kaleb Young was ranked 3rd in the country for most of the year. If you think he's a top 3 caliber wrestler any year, I don't know what to tell ya. 

Well he got 5th last year and the top 3 graduated, so doesn't seem that crazy... (and of course he may not even finish top 3 this year anyway)

Edited March 4, 2020 by 1032004

[Ragu 51]

2 hours ago, PSUMike said:

I think the first 5 will be pretty chalky in terms of who comes out on top. My god, is 157 comically weak. 

165 - Flip a coin

174 - I think Hall pulls his head out of his ass and makes a statement here. 

184 - Whomever wins the Venz/Brooks semi will win. Lean Venz. 

197 - Moore

HWT - Gable

Cam Caffey keeps his hot streak rolling to a Big 10 title. You heard it here first 

[PSUMike 442]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Well he got 5th last year and the top 3 graduated, so doesn't seem that crazy... (and of course he may not even finish top 3 this year anyway)

Maybe I'm overly critical but I don't watch Deakin and think "He's a national champ in the making" although that's how it looks. Young, to my eye, looks like a bloodround/7-8th place type of wrestler. There are quite a few guys in this weight who will AA this year who I don't think are AA talent. I just think the overall composition of the weight is weak relative to legacy data. 

Conversely, Carr is a multi-time NCAA champ and International competitor to my eye. I'm just not 100% sold he's there yet. And Hidley looks like a perennial bridesmade who never quite gets over the hump (Sorensen, Caldwell, McMullen type).

[PSUMike 442]

1 hour ago, Ragu said:

Cam Caffey keeps his hot streak rolling to a Big 10 title. You heard it here first 

That wouldn't surprise me to be honest. But I still would favor Brooks or Venz. 

[1032004 896]

2 hours ago, PSUMike said:

Maybe I'm overly critical but I don't watch Deakin and think "He's a national champ in the making" although that's how it looks. Young, to my eye, looks like a bloodround/7-8th place type of wrestler. There are quite a few guys in this weight who will AA this year who I don't think are AA talent. I just think the overall composition of the weight is weak relative to legacy data. 

Conversely, Carr is a multi-time NCAA champ and International competitor to my eye. I'm just not 100% sold he's there yet. And Hidley looks like a perennial bridesmade who never quite gets over the hump (Sorensen, Caldwell, McMullen type).

So then was 157 last year weak too since Young got 5th and Hidlay almost took out an all-time great?

I think this year’s guys just don’t have the name recognition because a lot of them are young.  A few years from now I bet you’ll think of this year’s 157 class much more highly.

[PSUMike 442]

Was it weak last year? Kinda. No one wanted to be in Nolf's weight so I think a few guys who would have been better suited for 157 moved up or down to avoid him.