Differences in Tom Ryan and Cael

[shieldofpistis 156]

There are many differences between them. Obviously the wrestling pedigree.  But as coaches I wanted to bring up two things i have noticed over the last few years. 

 

1)  Tom Ryan tries to get his team to compete each year.  It seems like he feels obligated to the boosters to present the best team possible for that given year.  For example, I think it would be in the long term best interest of the team to redshirt decatur and Malik.  They really need to mature.  

Cael is willing to redshirt guys and plan for super teams.  I remember the year Ohio State won the title.  Cael probably could have had a better team that year if he didn't reshirt.  But he intentionally did not put the best team forward in order to dominate in future years.  

I like how Tom Ryan wants to be fair to the wrestlers and boosters and go for it each year.  But I would rather him redshirt guys who aren't ready and try to build that super team.  

 

2) Cael prepares his guys mindset.  I am not sure Nolf would have bee a 3 time champion without Cael.  But Myles Martin just being a one -time champion is sad.  Of course he had Bo in his division for 3 years and just winning one in that case is good.  But Martin should have won hands down his senior year.  He was heads and shoulders above Dean.  I don't think Tom Ryan had him mentally prepared for all the different situations one may find themselves in a tournament.  I think under Cael, Myles would have won his senior year.  He may have been a 3 timer, but Cael also had Bo so I'm not sure how that would have worked. 

 

Am I on the right path or do you think I'm in error?

[russelscout 1,573]

3 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

There are many differences between them. Obviously the wrestling pedigree.  But as coaches I wanted to bring up two things i have noticed over the last few years. 

 

1)  Tom Ryan tries to get his team to compete each year.  It seems like he feels obligated to the boosters to present the best team possible for that given year.  For example, I think it would be in the long term best interest of the team to redshirt decatur and Malik.  They really need to mature.  

Cael is willing to redshirt guys and plan for super teams.  I remember the year Ohio State won the title.  Cael probably could have had a better team that year if he didn't reshirt.  But he intentionally did not put the best team forward in order to dominate in future years.  

I like how Tom Ryan wants to be fair to the wrestlers and boosters and go for it each year.  But I would rather him redshirt guys who aren't ready and try to build that super team.  

 

2) Cael prepares his guys mindset.  I am not sure Nolf would have bee a 3 time champion without Cael.  But Myles Martin just being a one -time champion is sad.  Of course he had Bo in his division for 3 years and just winning one in that case is good.  But Martin should have won hands down his senior year.  He was heads and shoulders above Dean.  I don't think Tom Ryan had him mentally prepared for all the different situations one may find themselves in a tournament.  I think under Cael, Myles would have won his senior year.  He may have been a 3 timer, but Cael also had Bo so I'm not sure how that would have worked. 

 

Am I on the right path or do you think I'm in error?

I dont know how to diagnose it, but every time these two teams dual, PSU seems ready and tOSU looks like dear in headlights.

[shieldofpistis 156]

Coul

1 minute ago, russelscout said:

I dont know how to diagnose it, but every time these two teams dual, PSU seems ready and tOSU looks like dear in headlights.

A couple years ago I thought Ohio State had it for sure.  Moore had to defeat Cassar and Snyder had to win.  Moore lost.  Then Snyder just had to defeat Nevills by 8.  It was disappointing as a Buckeye fan. 

 

Ohio State is the team that makes the Big 10.  They have more money than anyone.  Maybe they should just buy Cael to come coach. It's not like Cael has loyalty to PA. 

[BLT 86]

If cael has better guys to use at 125, 149, 157 and 285 who were eligible to wrestle they would be in there now, red shirt or not. Your post is way too generalized and you use a year Sanderson decided to mail it in for too much of your argument. Yes there has been a time or two Ryan jumped the gun on a guy but he likes to brag about being top 2. Martin won as a Fresh, he seemed to be ready to go, him not winning last year had nothing to do with Ryan. He just did not get it done. Hall will be at best a 2 timer under Cael, are you going to critique that too?

[Gantry 1,872]

7 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

Coul

A couple years ago I thought Ohio State had it for sure.  Moore had to defeat Cassar and Snyder had to win.  Moore lost.  Then Snyder just had to defeat Nevills by 8.  It was disappointing as a Buckeye fan. 

 

Ohio State is the team that makes the Big 10.  They have more money than anyone.  Maybe they should just buy Cael to come coach. It's not like Cael has loyalty to PA. 

I don't think that's right, I think Synder had to win by like 12 or something because the tiebreaker was going to be match points.  Could be misremembering though...

[SetonHallPirate 993]

3 minutes ago, Gantry said:

I don't think that's right, I think Synder had to win by like 12 or something because the tiebreaker was going to be match points.  Could be misremembering though...

Don't remember whether it was 12 or 13, but Gantry has the general idea right.

[Schuteandscore 170]

28 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

There are many differences between them. Obviously the wrestling pedigree.  But as coaches I wanted to bring up two things i have noticed over the last few years. 

 

1)  Tom Ryan tries to get his team to compete each year.  It seems like he feels obligated to the boosters to present the best team possible for that given year.  For example, I think it would be in the long term best interest of the team to redshirt decatur and Malik.  They really need to mature.  

Cael is willing to redshirt guys and plan for super teams.  I remember the year Ohio State won the title.  Cael probably could have had a better team that year if he didn't reshirt.  But he intentionally did not put the best team forward in order to dominate in future years.  

I like how Tom Ryan wants to be fair to the wrestlers and boosters and go for it each year.  But I would rather him redshirt guys who aren't ready and try to build that super team.  

 

2) Cael prepares his guys mindset.  I am not sure Nolf would have bee a 3 time champion without Cael.  But Myles Martin just being a one -time champion is sad.  Of course he had Bo in his division for 3 years and just winning one in that case is good.  But Martin should have won hands down his senior year.  He was heads and shoulders above Dean.  I don't think Tom Ryan had him mentally prepared for all the different situations one may find themselves in a tournament.  I think under Cael, Myles would have won his senior year.  He may have been a 3 timer, but Cael also had Bo so I'm not sure how that would have worked. 

 

Am I on the right path or do you think I'm in error?

Cael made decisions to keep it building but also won 8 out of 9, it’s not like he’s keeping guys out for future teams and not winning, so whatever goes into his decisions is working.  In all those years, Ohio State has been around and in the top 2-3, so I think he’s making some pretty good decisions too, not really sure I see what you’re getting at, and Myles Martin has achieved the top goal of any D1 wrestler as a freshman, most guys don’t get to even sniff that, and him losing his senior year had nothing to do with Ryan.  

[shieldofpistis 156]

11 hours ago, Schuteandscore said:

Cael made decisions to keep it building but also won 8 out of 9, it’s not like he’s keeping guys out for future teams and not winning, so whatever goes into his decisions is working.  In all those years, Ohio State has been around and in the top 2-3, so I think he’s making some pretty good decisions too, not really sure I see what you’re getting at, and Myles Martin has achieved the top goal of any D1 wrestler as a freshman, most guys don’t get to even sniff that, and him losing his senior year had nothing to do with Ryan.  

Malik is a good wrestler with good technique.  HIs major weakness is that he is undersized.  If he got on Nato's lifting plan, he could be very good.  He needs a year off.  I think Cael would do this.  Especially with someone with potential.  He is basically a waste for Tom Ryan.  Malik needs a year to regroup. 

Decatur has a ton of talent.  He simply is not mentally there. HIs match with Desanto showed that.  In this case, he has no business wasting a year.  He should redshirt next year, grow in mental strength, and practice with guys like Tomasello and Micah Jordan.  I have high hopes for him but Ryan should not have blown his redshirt.  I think that was big mistake. 

[nyum 241]

3 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

Malik is a good wrestler with good technique.  HIs major weakness is that he is undersized.  If he got on Nato's lifting plan, he could be very good.  He needs a year off.  I think Cael would do this.  Especially with someone with potential.  He is basically a waste for Tom Ryan.  Malik needs a year to regroup. 

Decatur has a ton of talent.  He simply is not mentally there. HIs match with Desanto showed that.  In this case, he has no business wasting a year.  He should redshirt next year, grow in mental strength, and practice with guys like Tomasello and Micah Jordan.  I have high hopes for him but Ryan should not have blown his redshirt.  I think that was big mistake. 

He didn’t blow a redshirt? He can still redshirt in future. 

[cjc007 774]

I guess finishing 4th in the big ten is want Carl wanted this season.

His all star crew still couldn't beat the Buckeyes in a rebuilding year for Tom Ryan.

And then there's this guy Nick Lee who jumped levels this year. Did you see he beat Ereirman this year?


Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

[jchapman 1,340]

Don't forget Tom Ryan held a spot in the lineup for his son Jake and didn't recruit competition at that weight, creating a vacuum of team points for a few years.

[Marcus Cisero 342]

I do not know much about Cael but Tom Ryan is originally from Long Island like myself. I read a lot about him and listened to a many of his interviews over the years and all I can say is the man speaks from the heart, is a born leader and most of all – he’s an inspiration. The young men who chose this school and who put their trust and faith in him are quite fortunate to have him as their leader. It’s no wonder why so many of the HS superstars want to be among his team.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Marcus Cisero

[Schuteandscore 170]

5 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

Malik is a good wrestler with good technique.  HIs major weakness is that he is undersized.  If he got on Nato's lifting plan, he could be very good.  He needs a year off.  I think Cael would do this.  Especially with someone with potential.  He is basically a waste for Tom Ryan.  Malik needs a year to regroup. 

Decatur has a ton of talent.  He simply is not mentally there. HIs match with Desanto showed that.  In this case, he has no business wasting a year.  He should redshirt next year, grow in mental strength, and practice with guys like Tomasello and Micah Jordan.  I have high hopes for him but Ryan should not have blown his redshirt.  I think that was big mistake. 

I agree that both Decatur and Malik could use a year, but they were the guys this year and I am sure there were conversations and the athletes were part of the decision.  Tying it into Cael, 125 has not been strong for him either.

[NCBuckeye 18]

I don’t think it’s as simple as putting Malik on a NATO weight lifting plan.  Maybe Ryan is reading the forum while having his morning coffee; he sees this thread and is like, “damn, why didn’t I think of that?”  
 

I suspect the staff knew early on what they had with Malik. They continue to try and lure a top 125lb to Columbus, but in the meantime want to compete at each weight and he was best available option.

Decatur may never be ready. There was a need at 133 so they went for it.  It’s not like Ryan refuses to RS anyone (All three Jordan’s, Ethan Smith, Sasso, Kharchla, NATO, etc. all shirted). However, so did guys like Gavin Hoffman.  A RS year is not a magic robe.  Another year isn’t always the best option for the team or the individual.  
 

 

[BobDole 1,235]

18 hours ago, BLT said:

If cael has better guys to use at 125, 149, 157 and 285 who were eligible to wrestle they would be in there now, red shirt or not. Your post is way too generalized and you use a year Sanderson decided to mail it in for too much of your argument. Yes there has been a time or two Ryan jumped the gun on a guy but he likes to brag about being top 2. Martin won as a Fresh, he seemed to be ready to go, him not winning last year had nothing to do with Ryan. He just did not get it done. Hall will be at best a 2 timer under Cael, are you going to critique that too?

What about in 2018 when Moore was a favorite and got launched by a Kent State guy twice? What about Nato winning as a freshman and never winning again?

Ohio State seems to have heavy favorites not perform at NCAAs.

[Mphillips 1,830]

Malik's body is as mature as it's getting and Decatur is not the answer, this year or next. 

With that said, Malik was "great" at the B1G tourney and over performed by a mile.  He's a really great wrestler, but his size is what it is.  I just don't believe Decatur has a future at OSU.

[Scorenomore 104]

Malik had the whole off-season to make gains in size.  It sure doesn’t look like the effort was put in.  Giving him a red shirt rewards lack of results and takes resources away from other current or future wrestlers.  I think the same is true for Decatur.  Coaches should not be surprised by what we are now seeing.  He needs to get it together and a year on red shirt isn’t going to solve it.  Sometimes the hard lessons can only be taught by being thrown into the fire.  
 

I think Tom Ryan is getting better every year. The future is bright for next year and what he was able to do with a 1x state champ in Moore is really impressive.   

[BadgerMon 229]

I used to think that Martin had Nickal stuck off the whistle...but now looking at it...not.

 

[steamboat_charlie v2 1,175]

21 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

There are many differences between them. Obviously the wrestling pedigree.  But as coaches I wanted to bring up two things i have noticed over the last few years. 

 

1)  Tom Ryan tries to get his team to compete each year.  It seems like he feels obligated to the boosters to present the best team possible for that given year.  For example, I think it would be in the long term best interest of the team to redshirt decatur and Malik.  They really need to mature.  

Cael is willing to redshirt guys and plan for super teams.  I remember the year Ohio State won the title.  Cael probably could have had a better team that year if he didn't reshirt.  But he intentionally did not put the best team forward in order to dominate in future years.  

I like how Tom Ryan wants to be fair to the wrestlers and boosters and go for it each year.  But I would rather him redshirt guys who aren't ready and try to build that super team.  

 

2) Cael prepares his guys mindset.  I am not sure Nolf would have bee a 3 time champion without Cael.  But Myles Martin just being a one -time champion is sad.  Of course he had Bo in his division for 3 years and just winning one in that case is good.  But Martin should have won hands down his senior year.  He was heads and shoulders above Dean.  I don't think Tom Ryan had him mentally prepared for all the different situations one may find themselves in a tournament.  I think under Cael, Myles would have won his senior year.  He may have been a 3 timer, but Cael also had Bo so I'm not sure how that would have worked. 

 

Am I on the right path or do you think I'm in error?

You're beginning to remind me of someone else around these parts shield. Perhaps I wasn't paying close enough attention. 

[ResiliteMarine 29]

22 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

Coul

A couple years ago I thought Ohio State had it for sure.  Moore had to defeat Cassar and Snyder had to win.  Moore lost.  Then Snyder just had to defeat Nevills by 8.  It was disappointing as a Buckeye fan. 

 

Ohio State is the team that makes the Big 10.  They have more money than anyone.  Maybe they should just buy Cael to come coach. It's not like Cael has loyalty to PA. 

They don't have more 'wrestling' money than PSU.

When Cael was hired, at the press conference, when asked why PSU?

His response, "I wanted to come to the source." Not by definition loyalty but in recognition of the best wrestlers in any given state. 

This, as his current team comes from seven different states.

[shieldofpistis 156]

1 hour ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

You're beginning to remind me of someone else around these parts shield. Perhaps I wasn't paying close enough attention. 

I pay my debts 

[shieldofpistis 156]

11 minutes ago, ResiliteMarine said:

They don't have more 'wrestling' money than PSU.

When Cael was hired, at the press conference, when asked why PSU?

His response, "I wanted to come to the source." Not by definition loyalty but in recognition of the best wrestlers in any given state. 

This, as his current team comes from seven different states.

Doesn't Iowa have a many PA wrestlers in starting lineup as Penn st?

[Idaho 1,400]

4 hours ago, BobDole said:

What about in 2018 when Moore was a favorite and got launched by a Kent State guy twice? What about Nato winning as a freshman and never winning again?

Ohio State seems to have heavy favorites not perform at NCAAs.

Martin is the only one that was really "Heavily Favored"  BTW this isn't just an OSU thing....Hall could be one of those guys this year. IMAR could fit in a similar category. 

[BobDole 1,235]

1 minute ago, Idaho said:

Martin is the only one that was really "Heavily Favored"  BTW this isn't just an OSU thing....Hall could be one of those guys this year. IMAR could fit in a similar category. 

Hall has made three finals, Nato got PINNED twice in the semi-finals....PINNED, PINNED!!!!!! 

[BLT 86]

Cael is bald and Ryan is not.