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russelscout

Out of bounds stalling

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24 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

And I would say youre then just going in circles, over complicating rules, making the sport more confusing and over regulated, and solving absolutely nothing. But hey theyre "new" and we all know how people like new things over old things.

I think a step out rule is way simpler, not overcomplicated. I could explain the step out rule to someone new to wrestling in a sentence, and frankly, they would be able to get it based off "step out rule" alone. However, it would take much longer to explain our complicated out of bounds system. Its pretty laughable to consider our current system less complicated. 

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1 minute ago, russelscout said:

I think a step out rule is way simpler, not overcomplicated. I could explain the step out rule to someone new to wrestling in a sentence, and frankly, they would be able to get it based off "step out rule" alone. However, it would take much longer to explain our complicated out of bounds system. Its pretty laughable to consider our current system less complicated. 

True, in this once instance and if it stopped there, but it wont. We're arguing 2 different things here. It will trigger something else.. and then something else.. and then something else...

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4 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

True, in this once instance and if it stopped there, but it wont. We're arguing 2 different things here. It will trigger something else.. and then something else.. and then something else...

Is that worse than what we are doing with the current rule set? At least this way it will help us prepare internationally.

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

Yeah, but Free has tons of issues with deciding exposure and who originates a move. 

if you understand the rules, there is considerably less problems... most "fans" in this country just don't understand the rule set and do not bother to learn...

yes, there are some questionable calls in free, but, the vast majority of them are correct...

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45 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

And I would say youre then just going in circles, over complicating rules, making the sport more confusing and over regulated, and solving absolutely nothing. But hey theyre "new" and we all know how people like new things over old things.

there is absolutely nothing complicated about a step out rule... it is black and white and has proven to generate more wrestling...

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11 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Is that worse than what we are doing with the current rule set? At least this way it will help us prepare internationally.

exactly, it will make better wrestlers and is incredibly simple to understand, implement, and adjust to...

 

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19 minutes ago, LJB said:

there is absolutely nothing complicated about a step out rule... it is black and white and has proven to generate more wrestling...

Depends on your definition of "wrestling"

Imo 3 pushouts is not better than 1 takedown.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

Depends on your definition of "wrestling"

is backing straight up wrestling?

even the most ridiculous stall fest supporter could not legitimately argue that circling is less wrestling than backing straight up...

but, it won't stop the mooks from trying...

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1 hour ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Imo 3 pushouts is not better than 1 takedown.

then don't get pushed out...

you guys act like it is so easy to get pushed out because all you see is guys refusing to wrestle and just backing up out of bounds... if there is a penalty for going out of bounds, wrestlers will learn to circle which will open up offense for both the attacking and defending wrestlers... and that is not even mentioning the offense that isa available  when someone is only looking to push straight forward... 

this has already been proven...

it isn't rocket science...

well, maybe for some of you...

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13 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Sometimes I believe you cats will argue nonsense just because of the poster that is for something you're against, or vice versa...

do you think?

there are a couple of jack asses that just follow others around from thread to thread because their mangina's got red and raw 6 months ago about something...

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I think edge of the mat takedowns and wrestling for takedowns in general is more exciting than pushouts (unless a scoring table gets in the way...).  I get freestyle fans see it differently.  I know they sigh and groan everytime action goes out of bounds but many folk fans sigh and groan when watching freestyle and seeing someone run an opponent off the mat when they have a single elevated.   I'm not sure one preference is objectively any more valid than the other.   I actually like the new rules in folk despite the inconsistency.  

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4 hours ago, silverback said:

Perhaps it's your understanding that is moot.  Go back to the beginning and start to read over.  Schuteandscore (the second post) said it takes the subjectivity out of it.  

 

Just now getting to read this...I was merely agreeing with the OP and mentioning my humble opinion of how to improve something that a lot of people seem to want to improve.  As for the point about subjectivity, listen I get it that nothing will ever be completely objective, can’t be with the human aspect involved, but having a specific rule to follow with a set criteria, where there can be a more clear call, is a great way to start.  I don’t think it’s bad to constantly be looking for ways to improve the sport, especially in regards to situations that people must want to change because it’s discussed a lot.  

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3 hours ago, LJB said:

is backing straight up wrestling?

even the most ridiculous stall fest supporter could not legitimately argue that circling is less wrestling than backing straight up...

but, it won't stop the mooks from trying...

why is every post you make ended in an insult? 

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1 hour ago, LJB said:

then don't get pushed out...

you guys act like it is so easy to get pushed out because all you see is guys refusing to wrestle and just backing up out of bounds... if there is a penalty for going out of bounds, wrestlers will learn to circle which will open up offense for both the attacking and defending wrestlers... and that is not even mentioning the offense that isa available  when someone is only looking to push straight forward... 

this has already been proven...

it isn't rocket science...

well, maybe for some of you...

you haven't noticed guys circling in this year with the stall warning given for being shot out... ? 

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1 hour ago, LJB said:

do you think?

there are a couple of jack asses that just follow others around from thread to thread because their mangina's got red and raw 6 months ago about something...

sounds like the reason you keep posting in the forum about wrestling you dont like... 

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4 hours ago, Schuteandscore said:

Just now getting to read this...I was merely agreeing with the OP and mentioning my humble opinion of how to improve something that a lot of people seem to want to improve.  As for the point about subjectivity, listen I get it that nothing will ever be completely objective, can’t be with the human aspect involved, but having a specific rule to follow with a set criteria, where there can be a more clear call, is a great way to start.  I don’t think it’s bad to constantly be looking for ways to improve the sport, especially in regards to situations that people must want to change because it’s discussed a lot.  

Thank you for the civilized response.  I am not in favor of changing to the push out.  That still depends on the officials opinion, whether there is action or not.  Yes, it's not an easy fix, but in my opinion step out points have nothing to do with wrestling.  People are going to avoid wrestling with or without the push out rule.  Wrestling should be determined by takedowns and pins.  Not push out points.  I have seen many freestyle matches were one wrestler has a leg up and simply walks his opponent out of bounds with no attempt to score.  That to me is not what wrestling is about. 

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11 hours ago, LJB said:

there is no logical reason to argue against a push out rule... absolutely none...

the only argument against it is "we aint never done that before... and we aint doing it now!!!!"

and the above is just typical meathead thought patterns... we should do everything to get rid of those type of low rent attitudes push out or no...

This is not sumo and pushing is not wrestling.  Pushing with no attempt at a set up/shot or shifting the opponent's weight or level change or underhooks/throw set up is stalling also.  I can live with a push out rule IF both wrestlers are penalized for stepping beyond the wrestling surface - like a double stalling call. 

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2 minutes ago, silverback said:

Thank you for the civilized response.  I am not in favor of changing to the push out.  That still depends on the officials opinion, whether there is action or not.  Yes, it's not an easy fix, but in my opinion step out points have nothing to do with wrestling.  People are going to avoid wrestling with or without the push out rule.  Wrestling should be determined by takedowns and pins.  Not push out points.  I have seen many freestyle matches were one wrestler has a leg up and simply walks his opponent out of bounds with no attempt to score.  That to me is not what wrestling is about. 

there is no opinion on the step out in free... it is black and white...

a leg in the air forcing their opponent out of bounds is not just an attempt to score, it is a score... they are not just gifting them their leg... it was taken... against their will... then they were forced outside the area of competition against their will... if they did not want to go they could always turn down and accept the TD... or not give up their leg in the first place instead of just relying on the safety of out of bonds to save them from poor technique...

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2 minutes ago, Lipdrag said:

This is not sumo and pushing is not wrestling.  Pushing with no attempt at a set up/shot or shifting the opponent's weight or level change or underhooks/throw set up is stalling also.  I can live with a push out rule IF both wrestlers are penalized for stepping beyond the wrestling surface - like a double stalling call. 

pushing and pulling is very much a part of wrestling... it is very much a way of moving your opponent where you want them to set up your offense... and is easily countered by running straight back to avoid actually wrestling... 

this whole sumo cry is such a weak and uneducated argument... 

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6 minutes ago, silverback said:

The step out is not black and white.  I have witnessed wrestlers step out of bounds and not penalized for it (action call).  

 

the only time the push out is not called is if you straight arm "push" them out...

i would humbly suggest you learn the rules before commenting on them...

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