Flo's Rankings are atrocious!

[Antitroll2828 602]

5 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

Willie never did NCAA rankings for Flo. I've been doing them with CP since 2017-18 and helped some with the 2016-17 season. CP has gradually stepped back from the role as the seasons went on and then this year they've been pretty much all me all year. it's possible I got much worse at rankings over the summer, but then traffic for the NCAA rankings have never been higher, and that's after we put them behind a paywall, so go figure. 

what we try to do at Flo is be as transparent as possible. we keep archives of the rankings up so you can see how the rankings have changed week over week, and include explanations so you don't have to guess as much at the reasoning. I also use Who's #1 the Show to provide more in depth explanations to the most contentious rankings conundrums on a weekly basis. 

I try not to look at other rankings too closely so as not to be overly influenced one way or another but I do keep tabs on them and feel good about the quality that Flo is publishing. we get LOTS of feedback, from fans, coaches, athletes and athletes families, and we want to be able to provide explanations using consistent methodology. For instance, I tried to address Rusty's complaint on twitter but I guess he found it insufficient. 

It's a pretty common complaint, and there's no way to avoid it in wrestling, especially after the craziest weekend of the year from a rankings perspective. Sometimes guys lose and move up because other guys ranked ahead of them take worse losses. other times guys win and move down because guys ranked below them have better wins. there was a tone of parity this year at 184 outside of the top 10 so counterintuitive moves like that were happening all the time.

and college football is probably the least helpful sport to use when trying to rationalize college wrestling rankings. the two sports are just not comparable. but its very popular and it's what people are familiar with, so we end up having to explain many times over the course of the year why something happened in the rankings that wouldn't necessarily happen in football. I don't mind though, it means college wrestling is gaining popularity. It's when the complaints or questions completely stop that I would really begin to worry! 

Lou deprez has lost to 2 different people Aaron Brooks has beaten this year and bonocorsii just took 3rd In a 6 team conference why are they both still ranked ahead of brooks ?  Also Sebastian had a terrible big ten tournament why would he move up?

[unknown 33]

Flo rankings are to be desired, but when you know Spey(former property manager) doing them,  i guess you cant expect much

[1032004 896]

5 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Lou deprez has lost to 2 different people Aaron Brooks has beaten this year and bonocorsii just took 3rd In a 6 team conference why are they both still ranked ahead of brooks ?  Also Sebastian had a terrible big ten tournament why would he move up?

Wait do they have Brooks lower than like 3 or4?

[lost 119]

Haters gonna hate.  Keep it up flo, you will never make everyone happy.  I could nitpick all kinds of things about the rankings if I had a bone to pick, which is true of any set of rankings.

[pish6969 278]

Real Woods at 9?? Get real Spey. This is prime example of what I’m talking about. This is your end of year ranking and for it to be 6 spots off of where he’ll be seeded is a joke. Spin it how you want

 

 

Instead of being snarky in your response. This is a prime example where you can be objective and also be subjective (common sense).

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pish6969 278]

Wait do they have Brooks lower than like 3 or4?

Yes. They have Brooks behind DePerez who got decked by Venz and lost to Weiler. (Brooks avenged only loss to Venz via pin and majored Weiler). They also have him behind both Hidlay and Bonnacorsi who both loss to DePerez.

Spey doesn’t understand how to rank people when they don’t hit head to head (this is where subjectivity/common sense is involved). Prime example is Real Woods. Spey has him ranked 9th because he hasn’t hit anyone in top 10 except Pletcher who is his only loss in OT. Check any other ranking service, coaches rank, etc. to have Real Woods 9 shows he shouldn’t touch rankings.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[headache 125]

11 hours ago, Cptafw164 said:

Wrestlestat is nothing more than a RATING than a RANKING.  Hence the messed up predictions.  You would think that an algorithm would have someone winning if they beat another guy the past three times...nope.

I can't for the life of me understand why "we" bow down to algorithms. If your algorithm says Gross>Rivera, DeSanto>RBY, Lee>Pletcher, O'Connor>Lugo, Hidley>Deakin, and Joseph>Marinelli, you might want go manual or find a new algorithm. Pretty ridiculous IMO.

[TBar1977 3,871]

41 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Wait do they have Brooks lower than like 3 or4?

He's 6th. Won Big10's and didn't move up even 1 spot. 

[Mokoma 273]

9 minutes ago, headache said:

I can't for the life of me understand why "we" bow down to algorithms. If your algorithm says Gross>Rivera, DeSanto>RBY, Lee>Pletcher, O'Connor>Lugo, Hidley>Deakin, and Joseph>Marinelli, you might want go manual or find a new algorithm. Pretty ridiculous IMO.

I think several of those are true.

[chestcrusher 8]

11 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

Willie never did NCAA rankings for Flo. I've been doing them with CP since 2017-18 and helped some with the 2016-17 season. CP has gradually stepped back from the role as the seasons went on and then this year they've been pretty much all me all year. it's possible I got much worse at rankings over the summer, but then traffic for the NCAA rankings have never been higher, and that's after we put them behind a paywall, so go figure. 

what we try to do at Flo is be as transparent as possible. we keep archives of the rankings up so you can see how the rankings have changed week over week, and include explanations so you don't have to guess as much at the reasoning. I also use Who's #1 the Show to provide more in depth explanations to the most contentious rankings conundrums on a weekly basis. 

I try not to look at other rankings too closely so as not to be overly influenced one way or another but I do keep tabs on them and feel good about the quality that Flo is publishing. we get LOTS of feedback, from fans, coaches, athletes and athletes families, and we want to be able to provide explanations using consistent methodology. For instance, I tried to address Rusty's complaint on twitter but I guess he found it insufficient. 

It's a pretty common complaint, and there's no way to avoid it in wrestling, especially after the craziest weekend of the year from a rankings perspective. Sometimes guys lose and move up because other guys ranked ahead of them take worse losses. other times guys win and move down because guys ranked below them have better wins. there was a tone of parity this year at 184 outside of the top 10 so counterintuitive moves like that were happening all the time.

and college football is probably the least helpful sport to use when trying to rationalize college wrestling rankings. the two sports are just not comparable. but its very popular and it's what people are familiar with, so we end up having to explain many times over the course of the year why something happened in the rankings that wouldn't necessarily happen in football. I don't mind though, it means college wrestling is gaining popularity. It's when the complaints or questions completely stop that I would really begin to worry! 

Appreciate you responding, but you use Who’s #1 to discuss college rankings? Who’s #1 is about high school results and recruiting not college ranking questions right? 
 

I agree with the other posters who say that end of year results should match pretty closely to the seeds because it is basd on the entire season . You have Real Woods at 9 while guys like Tristan Moran and Ian Parker are above him with 10 losses combined. Brooks at #6 lol he is a Big Ten champ and avenged his only loss. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by chestcrusher

[Mphillips 776]

18 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

I think several of those are true.

I tend to agree...

[Antitroll2828 602]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Wait do they have Brooks lower than like 3 or4?

Brooks won big tens and didn’t move at all, Sebastian went 1-2 at the same weight and moved up 6 spots 

[Mokoma 273]

20 minutes ago, chestcrusher said:

Appreciate you responding, but you use Who’s #1 to discuss college rankings? Who’s #1 is about high school results and recruiting not college ranking questions.
 

I agree with the other posters who say that end of year results should match pretty closely to the seeds because it is passed on the entire season . You have Real Woods at 9 while guys like Tristan Moran and Ian Parker with 10 losses combined. Brooks at #6 lol he is a Big Ten. Hamp and avenged his only loss. 

Who's #1 their show to discuss who's number 1.

[headache 125]

1 hour ago, Mokoma said:

I think several of those are true.

That's not even the point. All things being fairly equal, a recent head-to-head win ought to carry the day. I'm criticizing the algorithm. 

[Greatdane67 198]

You think these ranking are bad? Wait until the NCAA seeds are released!!!

9 minutes ago, headache said:

That's not even the point. All things being fairly equal, a recent head-to-head win ought to carry the day. I'm criticizing the algorithm. 

You think these rankings are bad? Wait until the NCAA seeds are released!!!

Edited March 11, 2020 by Greatdane67

[headache 125]

30 minutes ago, Greatdane67 said:

You think these ranking are bad? Wait until the NCAA seeds are released!!!

You think these rankings are bad? Wait until the NCAA seeds are released!!!

I have great fear that Marinelli & Joseph are #2 & #3. That would be the greatest seeding injustice of all time.

[PSUMike 442]

My biggest issue has always been a tremendous amount of recency bias. I could deck you 5 times leading up but if you beat me 3-2 in a rideout, you're going to leapfrog me in their rankings.