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Perry

Utah Valley and Bob Burda

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Not sure if I have Bob's last name spelled right or not, but he was the head official for the big 12 tournament apparently. If you havent listened to it take some time to go to flo and listen to today's frl.

 

Apparently the coaches voted prior to the start of the tourney that there would be no true 8th place matches. WV kid places 8th and their coaches confirmed (multiple times) their kid was done and earned his spot at ncaas. Taylor lamont meanwhile lays an egg and doesn't top 8. Somehow the utah valley coaches convinced burda to have a true 8th place match and he approves after a second coaches vote (on day 2) ended in a 50/50 split. Ultimately the WV kid was called away from celebrating with his family (he wasnt even in the stadium) and told if he didn't show up he was forfeiting. He ended up losing to lamont for true 8th.

 

What an absolutely gutless, low integrity and classless move by the utah valley coaches, head official and coaches like john Smith who were ok changing their word a day later on this. I hope nothing good befalls utah valley at ncaas. What a terrible example to set for the student athletes. Sorry for the rant, this is just infuriating and would never be tolerated in any other sport.

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Perry, I understand your frustration and that is not normally how Wrestling events are done in the U.S. It looks like they were preparing the WV for the last minute changes that happen overseas, and mostly only to the American wrestlers. 

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1 minute ago, TexRef said:

Perry, I understand your frustration and that is not normally how Wrestling events are done in the U.S. It looks like they were preparing the WV for the last minute changes that happen overseas, and mostly only to the American wrestlers. 

Giving them a little of that cary colat treatment

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13 minutes ago, Perry said:

Not sure if I have Bob's last name spelled right or not, but he was the head official for the big 12 tournament apparently. If you havent listened to it take some time to go to flo and listen to today's frl.

 

Apparently the coaches voted prior to the start of the tourney that there would be no true 8th place matches. WV kid places 8th and their coaches confirmed (multiple times) their kid was done and earned his spot at ncaas. Taylor lamont meanwhile lays an egg and doesn't top 8. Somehow the utah valley coaches convinced burda to have a true 8th place match and he approves after a second coaches vote (on day 2) ended in a 50/50 split. Ultimately the WV kid was called away from celebrating with his family (he wasnt even in the stadium) and told if he didn't show up he was forfeiting. He ended up losing to lamont for true 8th.

 

What an absolutely gutless, low integrity and classless move by the utah valley coaches, head official and coaches like john Smith who were ok changing their word a day later on this. I hope nothing good befalls utah valley at ncaas. What a terrible example to set for the student athletes. Sorry for the rant, this is just infuriating and would never be tolerated in any other sport.

On frl they said John Smith was against the 8th place match because he knew Lamont from Utah valley would get a wild card bid anyway and it would just mean an extra qualifier from the big 12 if they left it as it was

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Just now, Perry said:

Giving them a little of that cary colat treatment

The sad thing is that Colat was just a small glimpse of the many times that stuff has been changed. It does seem to have slowed up a bit with all of the social media and the internet. 

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14 minutes ago, Perry said:

Not sure if I have Bob's last name spelled right or not, but he was the head official for the big 12 tournament apparently. If you havent listened to it take some time to go to flo and listen to today's frl.

 

Apparently the coaches voted prior to the start of the tourney that there would be no true 8th place matches. WV kid places 8th and their coaches confirmed (multiple times) their kid was done and earned his spot at ncaas. Taylor lamont meanwhile lays an egg and doesn't top 8. Somehow the utah valley coaches convinced burda to have a true 8th place match and he approves after a second coaches vote (on day 2) ended in a 50/50 split. Ultimately the WV kid was called away from celebrating with his family (he wasnt even in the stadium) and told if he didn't show up he was forfeiting. He ended up losing to lamont for true 8th.

 

What an absolutely gutless, low integrity and classless move by the utah valley coaches, head official and coaches like john Smith who were ok changing their word a day later on this. I hope nothing good befalls utah valley at ncaas. What a terrible example to set for the student athletes. Sorry for the rant, this is just infuriating and would never be tolerated in any other sport.

That doesn't add up.  Was following B12 on ESPN and forum, it was known before regular 7th and 8th place match that there would be a true 8th.  OSU had a wrestler in the 7/8th place match so they were are risk.  I highly doubt he was called away from celebrating with his family, he still had to wrestle the regular 7/8 match.

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2 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

On frl they said John Smith was against the 8th place match because he knew Lamont from Utah valley would get a wild card bid anyway and it would just mean an extra qualifier from the big 12 if they left it as it was

I may have misunderstood smith's stance in today's frl and if so I take back my negativity directed towards him

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1 minute ago, ionel said:

That doesn't add up.  Was following B12 on ESPN and forum, it was known before regular 7th and 8th place match that there would be a true 8th.  OSU had a wrestler in the 7/8th place match so they were are risk.  I highly doubt he was called away from celebrating with his family, he still had to wrestle the regular 7/8 match.

Listen to the first part of the show, I am taking it at face value but that is what they were reporting

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The officials aren't really in charge of college events. If the coaches and/or Big12 officials present said to do X, wouldn't they do it?

Am I missing something? Something does sound pretty fishy but I'm not sure I understand why the referee had much to do with something outside of a wrestling rule interpretation which this isn't since the conference can structure the event pretty much as it wishes.

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1 minute ago, Perry said:

Listen to the first part of the show, I am taking it at face value but that is what they were reporting

nah ... we've already confirmed half is wrong, no reason to believe listening to it is going to provide useful info, again info was out there during the tournament.

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2 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

The officials aren't really in charge of college events. If the coaches and/or Big12 officials present said to do X, wouldn't they do it?

Am I missing something? Something does sound pretty fishy but I'm not sure I understand why the referee had much to do with something outside of a wrestling rule interpretation which this isn't since the conference can structure the event pretty much as it wishes.

The podcast said he was only involved because the day 2 coaches vote was a 5 to 5 split so he was the deciding vote. The coaches had voted day one to do all true matches except with place which was reportedly reversed when lamont went 0 and 2.

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Just now, ionel said:

nah ... we've already confirmed half is wrong, no reason to believe listening to it is going to provide useful info, again info was out there during the tournament.

I think you're the only one who has "confirmed" anything and you haven't even listened to the podcast

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5 minutes ago, OfficialObserver said:

First off, Bob Burda is not an official. He's the guy in charge of the Big 12 conference for wrestling. The officials have zero sayso in matters like these.

That would explain why he has more say, thank you for clarifying this. I do not know if it was stated in the podcast as I listened to it on my way to work. I was not familiar with him prior to this podcast though

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10 minutes ago, Perry said:

I think you're the only one who has "confirmed" anything and you haven't even listened to the podcast

So have you confirmed who Bob is?

Have you confirmed the wrestler was celebrating with his family before the 7/8th place match?

Have you confirmed that that nasty John Smith changed his mind?

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26 minutes ago, ionel said:

So have you confirmed who Bob is?

Have you confirmed the wrestler was celebrating with his family before the 7/8th place match?

Have you confirmed that that nasty John Smith changed his mind?

Bob works for the Big12 in communications and was the rep on hand in charge .Yes he did wrestle for 7th lose and leave and go out to eat with family.

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If the rules about true 8th were agreed upon ahead of time, it should stand.  Can't change the playing field mid-tournament because it tilts a way you don't like.  Major BS if true.  Don't like the rule, change it ahead of the meet or immediately after for next year.

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5 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Every conference needs to agree to "true" placement matches if an automatic birth is at stake and the wrestlers have not previously wrestled in the tournament. The end. 

Disagree. Conferences are independent and can do how they wish to when they wish. The NCAA will step in when they feel necessary.

If the NCAA wishes to start controlling things such as this we'll see an exodus of the Power 5 conferences in lieu of a self governing division that the power 5 conferences govern as a standalone entity.

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10 minutes ago, WV304 said:

https://wvusports.com/news/2020/3/7/wrestling-adams-advances-to-big-12-final.aspx
 

wvu was reporting Seibert made the ncaa tournament after saturday

so this article proves they had no clue about the true 8th place match 

Here's the article from the next day:

https://wvusports.com/news/2020/3/8/wrestling-adams-becomes-wvus-second-big-12-champion.aspx

Quote

"Lucas Seibert was put in a pretty unusual and difficult situation and he handled it with dignity and class," Flynn said. "It was everything that you would expect out of a Mountaineer. I'm proud of him."

 

Seems like there's something rotten in the state of Denmark.

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In the article I posted from Saturday night before the medal rounds. It stated he made it to the NCAA tournament

 

you just went to a different article after they made him wrestle LaMont 

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3 minutes ago, WV304 said:

In the article I posted from Saturday night before the medal rounds. It stated he made it to the NCAA tournament

 

you just went to a different article after they made him wrestle LaMont 

I know.  I'm agreeing with you, the second article has Flynn's quote where he kind of subtly mentions the "situation."  Seems like the West Virginia kid got SCREWED.

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Newspapers get stuff wrong all the time, so what is linked above doesn't prove anything one way or the other.  But the different combinations of true 8th (and that it was happening) was being discussed on the forums before the 7/8th place matches.  Did WV not get the word, was it not yet 100% settled? IDK but certainly many thought it was already a done deal.

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