Final NCAA Most Dominant

[VakAttack 2,617]

6 hours ago, Mokoma said:

It’s too bad Hall didn’t decide to skip out on 3 of his 4 toughest matches.  He would have won this award (and the Hodge apparently) going away!

He wrestled, and won the US Open beating tougher opponents than any he would have faced in college.

[Mokoma 268]

2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

He wrestled, and won the US Open beating tougher opponents than any he would have faced in college.

In a completely different sport.  It’s not relatable here.  

[Mokoma 268]

2 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

Skipping out on matches needs to be considered.

Agreed.  Had Hall decided to skip Iowa dual meet and 1 to 2 others he would have like a 5.5 for dominance and it wouldn’t even be a discussion between him and Spencer.  
 

Spencer is my favorite current college wrestler but I believe the award should be given to Moore or Griffith.

[VakAttack 2,617]

38 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

In a completely different sport.  It’s not relatable here.  

*checks records*

Nope, still wrestling.

[Mokoma 268]

20 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

*checks records*

Nope, still wrestling.

Okay so then he’d show more than 15-0, but he doesn’t.  It’s not part of college wrestling in any way.  

[VakAttack 2,617]

4 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

Okay so then he’d show more than 15-0, but he doesn’t.  It’s not part of college wrestling in any way.  

That's not what you said.

[DocBZ 89]

On 3/12/2020 at 6:23 AM, TBar1977 said:

If those numbers are not accurate you may wish to inform ncaa.com since the information came from them. 

https://www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling/article/2020-03-09/ncaa-standings-division-i-most-dominant-wrestler-most-falls-and

Since when is the NCAA accurate about anything? 

[Mokoma 268]

37 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

That's not what you said.

What did I say?  College wrestling and freestyle are 2 different sports.  

[VakAttack 2,617]

What did I say?  College wrestling and freestyle are 2 different sports.  

You said Lee skipped 3 of his 4 toughest matches. He did not.

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[Mpchillin 114]

1 hour ago, Mokoma said:

What did I say?  College wrestling and freestyle are 2 different sports.  

Not entirely true, they are different forms of the SAME sport. 

[MSU158 1,511]

12 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

You said Lee skipped 3 of his 4 toughest matches. He did not.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

Although I agree with your overall premise, this is a really nit picky argument.  Mokoma is posting about the #1 college wrestling award on a college wrestling site.  It’s safely inferred that he was talking about 3 of his 4 toughest matches in college wrestling. 

Now, with that said, Mokoma’s Argument is also nit picky since he knows college wrestling isn’t judged in a bubble. Those voting know he wrestled and won the US Open during that time frame which was Waaaaaay harder than the few matches he skipped.....

[VakAttack 2,617]

28 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Although I agree with your overall premise, this is a really nit picky argument.  Mokoma is posting about the #1 college wrestling award on a college wrestling site.  It’s safely inferred that he was talking about 3 of his 4 toughest matches in college wrestling. 
Now, with that said, Mokoma’s Argument is also nit picky since he knows college wrestling isn’t judged in a bubble. Those voting know he wrestled and won the US Open during that time frame which was Waaaaaay harder than the few matches he skipped.....

He is not talking about the #1 college wrestling award, he's contesting a purely objective statistic using subjective arguments, so I'm returning the favor.

ETA:  I guess he kind of sideways brought in the Hodge to the discussion, but that's not the focus of the thread or his argument even, since it was a parenthetical.

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Edited March 26, 2020 by VakAttack

[Class 67]

Yeah, but doing the midlands and skipping the semis and finals?!?!  Cmon, his US Open prep didn't really require that kind of pinpoint ceasing of folkstyle?  Outside of Picc those would have been 2 of his toughest matches of the year with the dual against Glory being the other.  Perhaps an argument could be made that Schroeder was a tougher opponent then the Midlands semi.

Surely MSU you can understand Mokoma's argument as it relates to this award no?  Taking away 2 or 3 of Hall's toughest matches which Spencer clearly did then he would have been higher in this scoring formula.

Your counters are valid for the Hodge, no doubt but not in this one.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Class

[Wrestleknownothing 349]

28 minutes ago, Mpchillin said:

Not entirely true, they are different forms of the SAME sport. 

But this award is very specific to the way folk style is scored in dual meets. 7 minutes, not 6. 15 for a tech, not 10. Riding rewarded, versus lacing the legs rewarded, Etc. So for the purpose of this award, they might as well be different sports.

[MSU158 1,511]

8 minutes ago, Class said:

Yeah, but doing the midlands and skipping the semis and finals?!?!  Cmon, his US Open prep didn't really require that kind of pinpoint ceasing of folkstyle?  Outside of Picc those would have been 2 of his toughest matches of the year with the dual against Glory being the other.  Perhaps an argument could be made that Schroeder was a tougher opponent then the Midlands semi.

Surely MSU you can understand Mokoma's argument as it relates to this award no?  Taking away 2 or 3 of Hall's toughest matches which Spencer clearly did then he would have been higher in this scoring formula.

Your counters are valid for the Hodge, no doubt but not in this one.

He was on a pitch count going into those 2 weeks. That was said before hand. In fact, he wasn’t going to wrestle Midlands at all, but they did the math and wanted to make sure he had enough matches by the end of the season to have an RPI. I can guarantee you it had nothing to do with avoiding a guy he has beat 18-2 and 12-6 or the other he beat this year 15-0 and 16-2. 

[MSU158 1,511]

19 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

He is not talking about the #1 college wrestling award, he's contesting a purely objective statistic using subjective arguments, so I'm returning the favor.

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Sorry about that. I believed he switched to the Hodge when he said Moore or Griffith should win the “award” considering this isn’t even a award. It is simply a statistic.  

I still think you know what I meant regarding your argument. 

Edited March 26, 2020 by MSU158

[AKHUNTER 285]

3 hours ago, Mokoma said:

In a completely different sport.  It’s not relatable here.  

I am pretty sure I have heard the likes of John Smith, Cael Sanderson and Tom Brands, to name a few, say "wrestling is wrestling".

[Class 67]

Pitch count or not hopefully you can see the point of the argument being relative here versus say the Hodge.  When looking at a metric like this the quality of his performance at the us open is a strange counter argument and irrelevant.   ( hopefully it is clear that I understand it was super impressive, it was).

 

[Mokoma 268]

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

You said Lee skipped 3 of his 4 toughest matches. He did not.

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In college wrestling?  He sure did.  He skipped Midlands semi and final and the dual against Princeton where Glory won.

[MSU158 1,511]

2 minutes ago, Class said:

Pitch count or not hopefully you can see the point of the argument being relative here versus say the Hodge.  When looking at a metric like this the quality of his performance at the us open is a strange counter argument and irrelevant.   ( hopefully it is clear that I understand it was super impressive, it was).

 

The argument about the US Open IS important because it adds significant context to his “skipping” certain matches. Without knowing he wrestled the Open it can look like he strategically missed those matches solely for college wrestling purposes.  That was NOT the case. 

[Mokoma 268]

48 minutes ago, Mpchillin said:

Not entirely true, they are different forms of the SAME sport. 

Is BJJ the same also then?  It’s all grappling.

[Mokoma 268]

48 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Although I agree with your overall premise, this is a really nit picky argument.  Mokoma is posting about the #1 college wrestling award on a college wrestling site.  It’s safely inferred that he was talking about 3 of his 4 toughest matches in college wrestling. 

Now, with that said, Mokoma’s Argument is also nit picky since he knows college wrestling isn’t judged in a bubble. Those voting know he wrestled and won the US Open during that time frame which was Waaaaaay harder than the few matches he skipped.....

Agree with all of that, but the point remains had Hall skipped Kemerer and 2 other tough matches his dominance ranking would be like 5.5.  It would not be fair to give him the Hodge in this case.  
 

Spencer is great and is the best college wrestler we have, but this award should not reward a guy who missed that much of the season and 3 of his tougher matches.  
 

Glory should win the college wrestling Hodge award before Spencer.  Moore, Griffith and Glory should all be ahead of him.  

[Mokoma 268]

32 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

He is not talking about the #1 college wrestling award, he's contesting a purely objective statistic using subjective arguments, so I'm returning the favor.

ETA:  I guess he kind of sideways brought in the Hodge to the discussion, but that's not the focus of the thread or his argument even, since it was a parenthetical.

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It’s absolutely the main point, what are you talking about.

[Mokoma 268]

34 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

He is not talking about the #1 college wrestling award, he's contesting a purely objective statistic using subjective arguments, so I'm returning the favor.

ETA:  I guess he kind of sideways brought in the Hodge to the discussion, but that's not the focus of the thread or his argument even, since it was a parenthetical.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

Not sideways literally my first post said if Hall skipped 3 tough matches then he would have won most dominant and the Hodge going away (at least according to all you who believe Lee should win easily).

[VakAttack 2,617]

Just now, Mokoma said:

It’s absolutely the main point, what are you talking about.

Well, you're in a thread about the Most Dominant stat, you said "It’s too bad Hall didn’t decide to skip out on 3 of his 4 toughest matches.  He would have won this award" and then you threw in a parenthetical about the Hodge.  So the Hodge most definitely was not your main point.