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Final NCAA Most Dominant

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23 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

He was on a pitch count going into those 2 weeks. That was said before hand. In fact, he wasn’t going to wrestle Midlands at all, but they did the math and wanted to make sure he had enough matches by the end of the season to have an RPI. I can guarantee you it had nothing to do with avoiding a guy he has beat 18-2 and 12-6 or the other he beat this year 15-0 and 16-2. 

Okay sure but give him a 12-6 win twice over Glory and a 16-2 win over DeAugustino and Hall wins this award.  If Hall skips Kemerer dual and 2 other tough matches he would win both awards going away and I would be saying the same thing.  (That Hall should not win the Big awards).

If NCAA’s weren’t cancelled and Lee blew away the field (which I expect he would), then I’d have much less of an issue with him winning the Hodge.  But when there is a serious candidate in Glory who laced it up twice when Iowa was in the field and got his hand raised twice, that should mean something.  
 

If Spencer Lee is so good, which he is, then he should have been able to dispose of those guys easily, like he did against the much tougher competition at US Open.

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5 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Well, you're in a thread about the Most Dominant stat, you said "It’s too bad Hall didn’t decide to skip out on 3 of his 4 toughest matches.  He would have won this award" and then you threw in a parenthetical about the Hodge.  So the Hodge most definitely was not your main point.

Both awards are the point.

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44 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

Is BJJ the same also then?  It’s all grappling.

Yes and no. Lee is the most dominant wrestler based on results this year and will likely win the Hodge off his dominance and career thus far. Moore, Griffith and Glory should in no way be ahead of him based off of results this year and past accomplishments.

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25 minutes ago, Mpchillin said:

Yes and no. Lee is the most dominant wrestler based on results this year and will likely win the Hodge off his dominance and career thus far. Moore, Griffith and Glory should in no way be ahead of him based off of results this year and past accomplishments.

Glory has won a tourney that Lee entered and also won in the Princeton - Iowa dual meet.  
 

The first criteria is record.  Griffith has over twice as many wins as Spencer.  The 2nd criteria is pins, Griffith has over twice as many as Spencer.  I don’t think it’s so cut and dry.

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5 hours ago, Mokoma said:

Glory has won a tourney that Lee entered and also won in the Princeton - Iowa dual meet.  
 

The first criteria is record.  Griffith has over twice as many wins as Spencer.  The 2nd criteria is pins, Griffith has over twice as many as Spencer.  I don’t think it’s so cut and dry.

That's factually wrong, nobody has 36 matches that's up for the hodge.  (I'm disputing your assertion that Griffith has 2x as many wins, that is simply false)

I can understand Spencer missing the first Princeton dual (where Pat Glory dec Aaron Cashman 9-4 btw) because he'd have had to travel to NJ,  while interrupting his training/peaking/scheduled preparation for the open and then compete there in Dallas 3 days later.  I think we can all understand him missing that meet regardless of if it was Pat Glory or Little Rock's 4th stringer.  But, I do not like that 6 days after he dominated Sr Nationals he pulls out of midlands after 3 matches, wtf?  I'd be less upset if he just missed the whole d*mn thing, then at least I can assume maybe he's dinged up or something. But with that said, Brands and only Brands made that call.  It sucks.  Sure there was the whole pitch count thing Brands mentioned preseason, but I'm going to b*tch regardless when anyone pulls their wrestler out of a tourney, while still healthy, right before they're about to face stiffer competition.  And I won't fault anybody else for b*itching about that one or calling it a duck, cause it certainly looked that way.

 All that said, I still don't see how they can award the Hodge to anyone else.  His record has zero cakewalk tourneys (unlike almost every other candidate) like the Black Knight Invitational, Wilkes Open, MSU open, road runner open, bum fight open, etc.  He wrestled a tough schedule in the toughest conference and was still utterly more dominant than anyone.  

Edit:  Mokoma--if Mark Hall gets to skip his 3 toughest matches then I think it's fair that Spencer gets to enter The Black Knight invitational and Wilkes open like Hall did then we can recalculate.   

Edited by Nutterbutter

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9 hours ago, Mokoma said:

Glory has won a tourney that Lee entered and also won in the Princeton - Iowa dual meet.  
 

The first criteria is record.  Griffith has over twice as many wins as Spencer.  The 2nd criteria is pins, Griffith has over twice as many as Spencer.  I don’t think it’s so cut and dry.

In 28 matches, Griffith wrestled a whopping 10 total NCAA qualifiers and managed two bonus point victories. In 24 matches, Glory wrestled 9 total qualifiers and had 4 bonus point victories. In 18 matches, Spencer faced 13 NCAA qualifiers and won 12 of them by bonus points. It’s not really that hard.

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7 hours ago, Nutterbutter said:

That's factually wrong, nobody has 36 matches that's up for the hodge.  (I'm disputing your assertion that Griffith has 2x as many wins, that is simply false)

I can understand Spencer missing the first Princeton dual (where Pat Glory dec Aaron Cashman 9-4 btw) because he'd have had to travel to NJ,  while interrupting his training/peaking/scheduled preparation for the open and then compete there in Dallas 3 days later.  I think we can all understand him missing that meet regardless of if it was Pat Glory or Little Rock's 4th stringer.  But, I do not like that 6 days after he dominated Sr Nationals he pulls out of midlands after 3 matches, wtf?  I'd be less upset if he just missed the whole d*mn thing, then at least I can assume maybe he's dinged up or something. But with that said, Brands and only Brands made that call.  It sucks.  Sure there was the whole pitch count thing Brands mentioned preseason, but I'm going to b*tch regardless when anyone pulls their wrestler out of a tourney, while still healthy, right before they're about to face stiffer competition.  And I won't fault anybody else for b*itching about that one or calling it a duck, cause it certainly looked that way.

 All that said, I still don't see how they can award the Hodge to anyone else.  His record has zero cakewalk tourneys (unlike almost every other candidate) like the Black Knight Invitational, Wilkes Open, MSU open, road runner open, bum fight open, etc.  He wrestled a tough schedule in the toughest conference and was still utterly more dominant than anyone.  

Edit:  Mokoma--if Mark Hall gets to skip his 3 toughest matches then I think it's fair that Spencer gets to enter The Black Knight invitational and Wilkes open like Hall did then we can recalculate.   

Sorry I had Gable 15-0 and Spencer 18-0 mixed up.  
 

What’s the difference in competition between those tourneys you mentioned for Hall and the first rounds of Midlands that Lee participated in?  Serious question I don’t know who faced better competition.

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7 hours ago, Nutterbutter said:

That's factually wrong, nobody has 36 matches that's up for the hodge.  (I'm disputing your assertion that Griffith has 2x as many wins, that is simply false)

I can understand Spencer missing the first Princeton dual (where Pat Glory dec Aaron Cashman 9-4 btw) because he'd have had to travel to NJ,  while interrupting his training/peaking/scheduled preparation for the open and then compete there in Dallas 3 days later.  I think we can all understand him missing that meet regardless of if it was Pat Glory or Little Rock's 4th stringer.  But, I do not like that 6 days after he dominated Sr Nationals he pulls out of midlands after 3 matches, wtf?  I'd be less upset if he just missed the whole d*mn thing, then at least I can assume maybe he's dinged up or something. But with that said, Brands and only Brands made that call.  It sucks.  Sure there was the whole pitch count thing Brands mentioned preseason, but I'm going to b*tch regardless when anyone pulls their wrestler out of a tourney, while still healthy, right before they're about to face stiffer competition.  And I won't fault anybody else for b*itching about that one or calling it a duck, cause it certainly looked that way.

 All that said, I still don't see how they can award the Hodge to anyone else.  His record has zero cakewalk tourneys (unlike almost every other candidate) like the Black Knight Invitational, Wilkes Open, MSU open, road runner open, bum fight open, etc.  He wrestled a tough schedule in the toughest conference and was still utterly more dominant than anyone.  

Edit:  Mokoma--if Mark Hall gets to skip his 3 toughest matches then I think it's fair that Spencer gets to enter The Black Knight invitational and Wilkes open like Hall did then we can recalculate.   

Sorry I had Gable 15-0 and Spencer 18-0 mixed up.  
 

What’s the difference in competition between those tourneys you mentioned for Hall and the first rounds of Midlands that Lee participated in?  Serious question I don’t know who faced better competition.

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2 hours ago, Mokoma said:

What’s the difference in competition between those tourneys you mentioned for Hall and the first rounds of Midlands that Lee participated in?  Serious question I don’t know who faced better competition.

Spencer pinned two guys that were NCAA qualifiers in under a minute. Hall didn’t face any qualifiers in either of those tournaments in 8 matches.

Edited by Mpchillin

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1 hour ago, Mpchillin said:

Spencer pinned two guys that were NCAA qualifiers in under a minute. Hall didn’t face any qualifiers in either of those tournaments in 8 matches.

Thanks, it’s definitely information to be considered.

It’s too bad the NCAA’s weren’t wrestled this year because I think Spencer would have made it clear.

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Spencer Lee would have laid waste in what he would consider a tune-up for the real tournament a couple weeks down the road. Mark Hall would be fighting to win. That says it all.

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20 hours ago, Mokoma said:

Okay sure but give him a 12-6 win twice over Glory and a 16-2 win over DeAugustino and Hall wins this award.  If Hall skips Kemerer dual and 2 other tough matches he would win both awards going away and I would be saying the same thing.  (That Hall should not win the Big awards).

If NCAA’s weren’t cancelled and Lee blew away the field (which I expect he would), then I’d have much less of an issue with him winning the Hodge.  But when there is a serious candidate in Glory who laced it up twice when Iowa was in the field and got his hand raised twice, that should mean something.  
 

If Spencer Lee is so good, which he is, then he should have been able to dispose of those guys easily, like he did against the much tougher competition at US Open.

Glory struggled with the Iowa backup lol

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1 hour ago, AHamilton said:

Glory struggled with the Iowa backup lol

Maybe the Iowa backup is better than the starter.  It happens all the time, but the starter is protected because of being a name.  

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21 hours ago, Mokoma said:

Okay sure but give him a 12-6 win twice over Glory and a 16-2 win over DeAugustino and Hall wins this award.  If Hall skips Kemerer dual and 2 other tough matches he would win both awards going away and I would be saying the same thing.  (That Hall should not win the Big awards).

If NCAA’s weren’t cancelled and Lee blew away the field (which I expect he would), then I’d have much less of an issue with him winning the Hodge.  But when there is a serious candidate in Glory who laced it up twice when Iowa was in the field and got his hand raised twice, that should mean something.  
 

If Spencer Lee is so good, which he is, then he should have been able to dispose of those guys easily, like he did against the much tougher competition at US Open.

DeAugustino does not finish the match with Lee and I'm not sure Glory does either.

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1 minute ago, BLT said:

DeAugustino does not finish the match with Lee and I'm not sure Glory does either.

Well they toed the line when they were supposed to meet Spencer.  Spencer decided not to.

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Yes, he took a match off the week before the US Senior Nationals where he won a bracket with six former NCAA Champions, a world junior silver medalist and other former All Americans.  He missed a day of wrestling the week immediately after the US Senior Nationals.  So, let's see, the week prior and the week after and this plan was announced at the beginning of the season.  People want to reach for anything to be critical--what a joke.  

Edited by mistydawn
edit

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Mokoma, Lee technical failed Cashman in the first period in the wrestle off this year and he pinned him in the first period in the wrestle off last year.  I think Glory beat him 7-2 or so...  I don't remember, but it was competitive.  I think both matches are on YouTube.  

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15 minutes ago, mistydawn said:

Mokoma, Lee technical failed Cashman in the first period in the wrestle off this year and he pinned him in the first period in the wrestle off last year.  I think Glory beat him 7-2 or so...  I don't remember, but it was competitive.  I think both matches are on YouTube.  

I would have thought most people could tell I was joking about Cashman being better than Spencer.  Apparently I wasn’t obvious enough.  

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On 3/26/2020 at 3:38 PM, Mokoma said:

Well they toed the line when they were supposed to meet Spencer.  Spencer decided not 

Let me rephrase....Brands and only Brands made that call.  

 

On 3/26/2020 at 6:48 PM, mistydawn said:

Yes, he took a match off the week before the US Senior Nationals where he won a bracket with six former NCAA Champions, a world junior silver medalist and other former All Americans.  He missed a day of wrestling the week immediately after the US Senior Nationals.  So, let's see, the week prior and the week after and this plan was announced at the beginning of the season.  People want to reach for anything to be critical--what a joke.  

Maybe this is directed at me, I don't know, but that talk is already out there, I'm just trying to address it. I am a big fan Spencer Lee (truly). He does his job, believes in himself, believes in his coaches, and is a huge bright spot in this sport. I'm not critical of SL, but I am critical of Brands' plan to miss day 2 of Midlands. Then I wouldn't have to listen to douchebags like Pat Downy talking sh*t to him on Twitter.  

 

Some advice Pat - Don't talk sh"t to someone who COMPLETELY outclasses you on and off the mat.

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