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PSA: College is not about wrestling

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Aww thank you @Marcus Cisero and @HurricaneWrestling2 although I'm really not that knowledgeable about wrestling, I just enjoy the sport and am kind of vocal, haha.

There are ppl here who have wrestled D1 and beyond, coached, have connections and made a career out of wrestling and giving back to the sport. Even though this board catches a lot of flak for being argumentative and going off the rails (and I will admit I sometimes contribute to it, lol), there's a lot of very smart posters and I am always learning new things about the sport.

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On 3/13/2020 at 6:42 AM, 9insoft said:

Time to put that Exercise Science w/ a minor in Creative Writing degree to work.

Consider a computer engineering or related technical degree and you will be making $70K your first year in a low cost of living area like Kansas City, $100K in Madison - Wisconsin, and much higher in San Francisco in your first year of employment.  The starting salary is notably increasing due to the large engineer shortage and a hot market.  I interview more foreigners than citizens (midwest jobs).  A software engineer colleague with 25 years experience started at $25K and has seen a 680% increase.  An average achieving colleague started at $50K and has seen a 120% increase over 18 years.  I have had a 260% increase over 15 years.  The wrestler's work ethic and self-demand to continuously improve translates well in the workforce.  If you are not going to be a doctor, lawyer, or self-employed, the technical fields are the way to a financially secure future.

Edited by jross

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On 3/13/2020 at 5:27 AM, Marcus Cisero said:

man, leave it to the two women in this forum to make the most sense, and do it within one thread for all to see!  Pamela, all kidding aside - you are one of the most articulate individuals in this forum.  Your knowledge of wrestling and analytical skills are off the charts and I for one enjoyed reading what you have to say over the last year or so I've been a member.  I'm just curious, are you a coach or were you a coach at some point in your life?

Hay, why all the cujo's gotta go to women?

Double jointed do yoga I articulate crazy skilz and I smart ta boot. I fight you over Trump and stuf, why every body sayin I aint smart. You dont no me, I took collage did good. Got on 'ers.

 

(Sorry everyone. My apologies. It's going to be a looong off-season when I'm this bored this soon.)

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8 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Hay, why all the cujo's gotta go to women?

Double jointed do yoga I articulate crazy skilz and I smart ta boot. I fight you over Trump and stuf, why every body sayin I aint smart. You dont no me, I took collage did good. Got on 'ers.

 

(Sorry everyone. My apologies. It's going to be a looong off-season when I'm this bored this soon.)

I see them contributing a heck of a lot more than you

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On 3/12/2020 at 11:51 PM, pamela said:

Jay Bilas pretty much debunked the assumption that all players want to compete in the postseason. A number of kids told him straight up that they didn’t want any part of March Madness, whether for safety reasons, to be with family, focus on other things or simply escape the long grind of the season.

While D1 college wrestlers are a whole different animal than basketball players, I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that there are likely a bunch of wrestlers out there who are 100% fine with the season being over. There are bigger things out there than sports.

Disagree, I think you’d be hard pressed to find a handful of D1 wrestlers that qualified for nationals that are happy the season is over. 

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Here's my story about athletics bringing a person to college (and success) that  they wouldn't have otherwise.  I played college football with a guy from an extremely disadvantaged background.  He probably only had two pair of pants, one pair of shoes and a couple of t-shirts when he came to college.  He had to wear his football sweats (in the 80's football sweats weren't anything special) to class.  His goal was to play professional football and buy his mom a house.  He started 4 years, but wasn't good enough to get a pro tryout--much less drafted; but he stuck around college, got his degree.  Took some grad classes and then met and married Sam Walton's granddaughter.   

Sam Walton was the founder of Wal-Mart.  I guess he was able to buy his mom that house.

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9 hours ago, agoff71 said:

Scholarships are not guaranteed.

Getting book and tuition scholarships at an NJCAA has a lower bar of entry than D1.  I know HS state qualifiers in KS that get them.  CC in general is affordable.  If you perform well academically or athletically at the CC, you can potentially get a scholarship at a D1 school.  NAIA schools have a lower bar for providing sports scholarships that partially cover dues.  NAIA, where many are private liberal art schools, can be more expensive than your average D1 public university. 

---

My parents did not know much about college opportunities, recruiting, etc. when I was growing up.  Dad pushed for me to take 3 months of training and to become an air traffic controller after HS.  My parents did not take me to visit any colleges, did not discuss college, did not help me with recruiting.  They did not enroll me in Freestyle and Greco wrestling.  I did not know year-round wrestling was a thing and I did not know there were tournaments beyond KS state youth and high school.  Only one college talked with me during a HS tournament -- believe it was Fort Hays - D2.  My ignorant self was dismissive (never heard of Hays and D2 != D1).  I figured there were no KS college wrestling options until a state qualifier teammate reported he had a book and tuition scholarship at another school that I had never heard of: Neosho County CC - NJCAA.  The news triggered a different buddy and me to embark on the longest journey we had ever made in our lives.  We drove two hours to Chanute, KS to talk to coach Terry Pack.  Terry made us the same book and tuition offer and gave us a tour.  We saw that the wrestlers were dorming in trailers, with as many beds as one could fit, and these boys did not have their moms around to clean their rooms :P.  My ignorance had no bounds and I was not sold on Neosho.  Getting the same offer as my SQ buddy hurt my *ego, the living quarters didn't fit my snobbish needs, and worst of all this was two hours away from my HS girlfriend.  Kansas had less wrestling options than they do now.   Then it was like D1-0, D2-2, D3-0, NJCAA-3, NAIA-0 opportunities. 

A baseball buddy got a baseball scholarship at Ottawa University - NAIA, just 30 minutes from our hometown.  So I went and tried out for that team and received a baseball scholarship to play baseball.  I later quit baseball to go to a community college even closer to my hometown before following my girlfriend to Kansas State University --- where that ended. 

I had not much clue what I was going to be when I grew up.  I was taking pre-med classes and with an intent to be a chiropractor like my brother-in-law.  Then an 88-year man vanned over and killed my dad at the Sturgis rally in Rapid City, South Dakota.  I stopped school for six months until my mom steered me back out of the house.  My threatening mom's dinner-at-home date with a bat was cramping her newly single lifestyle.  I enjoyed america online then and my other brother-in-law told me to consider DeVry for a technical degree.  He was a Casey's gas station manager until he was 30 before going to DeVry for an associate's degree.  It instantly bumped his salary to $35K in Kansas 20 years ago.  He went back for a BS at DeVry and his salary continued to go up (over $100K now).  So I went to the recruiter, said I like computers and asked what degree would pay me the most.  The recruiter said computer engineers can make $50K out of college.  16 years ago this month, I earned my computer engineering technology degree from DeVry, went to a KU career fair, and lined up a $50K job just like the recruiter said was possible.  I did have one neighbor give me a hard time about my degree.  He was another engineer that said "He earned his" and "mine was bought."  That man had no fudging clue as I can speak first-hand that the calculus, differential equations, electrical engineering design, etc. courses at DeVry (for profit) were every bit as difficult as courses at Johnson County Community College, Ottawa University (NAIA), and Kansas State University (D1).  

I worked 20 hours a week while taking 19 credit hours year-round at DeVry.  I worked 30 hours while taking 12 credit hours as KSU.  My total college education was about $65K and would have been less had I went to a KSU-D1 for 4 years.  It helped that I worked to pay for rent, food, car, etc. during that time.  I cannot fathom someone paying $250K for a college education unless they plan to be a surgeon.  As dumb as I was, I knew not to pay 7x for college than what my salary would be my first year.  Do people refuse to work and rather include loans for a vehicle, food, rent, etc. along with the college education?  

*Ego: I was an above-average KS wrestler but not great.  I medaled a few times and won a youth state tournament.  I was pinned in a HS state finals match by the head and arm. Thankfully my ego wasn't aware yet about a transitive win over Ben Askren that uses similar logic to a Monty Python burn the witch scene. 

**Wow I wrote a journal.

Edited by jross

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7 minutes ago, jross said:

Getting book and tuition scholarships at an NJCAA has a lower bar of entry than D1.  I know HS state qualifiers in KS that get them.  CC in general is affordable.  If you perform well academically or athletically at the CC, you can potentially get a scholarship at a D1 school.  NAIA schools have a lower bar for providing sports scholarships that partially cover dues.  NAIA, where many are private liberal art schools, can be more expensive than your average D1 public university. 

---

My parents did not know much about college opportunities, recruiting, etc. when I was growing up.  Dad pushed for me to take 3 months of training and to become an air traffic controller after HS.  My parents did not take me to visit any colleges, did not discuss college, did not help me with recruiting.  They did not enroll me in Freestyle and Greco wrestling.  I did not know year-round wrestling was a thing and I did not know there were tournaments beyond KS state youth and high school.  Only one college talked with me during a HS tournament -- believe it was Fort Hays - D2.  My ignorant self was dismissive (never heard of Hays and D2 != D1).  I figured there were no KS college wrestling options until a state qualifier teammate reported he had a book and tuition scholarship at another school that I had never heard of: Neosho County CC - NJCAA.  The news triggered a different buddy and me to embark on the longest journey we had ever made in our lives.  We drove two hours to Chanute, KS to talk to coach Terry Pack.  Terry made us the same book and tuition offer and gave us a tour.  We saw that the wrestlers were dorming in trailers, with as many beds as one could fit, and these boys did not have their moms around to clean their rooms :P.  My ignorance had no bounds and I was not sold on Neosho.  Getting the same offer as my SQ buddy hurt my *ego, the living quarters didn't fit my snobbish needs, and worst of all this was two hours away from my HS girlfriend.  Kansas had less wrestling options than they do now.   Then it was like D1-0, D2-2, D3-0, NJCAA-3, NAIA-0 opportunities. 

A baseball buddy got a baseball scholarship at Ottawa University - NAIA, just 30 minutes from our hometown.  So I went and tried out for that team and received a baseball scholarship to play baseball.  I later quit baseball to go to a community college even closer to my hometown before following my girlfriend to Kansas State University --- where that ended. 

I had not much clue what I was going to be when I grew up.  I was taking pre-med classes and with an intent to be a chiropractor like my brother-in-law.  Then an 88-year man vanned over and killed my dad at the Sturgis rally in Rapid City, South Dakota.  I stopped school for six months until my mom steered me back out of the house.  My threatening mom's dinner-at-home date with a bat was cramping her newly single lifestyle.  I enjoyed america online then and my other brother-in-law told me to consider DeVry for a technical degree.  He was a Casey's gas station manager until he was 30 before going to DeVry for an associate's degree.  It instantly bumped his salary to $35K in Kansas 20 years ago.  He went back for a BS at DeVry and his salary continued to go up (over $100K now).  So I went to the recruiter, said I like computers and asked what degree would pay me the most.  The recruiter said computer engineers can make $50K out of college.  16 years ago this month, I earned my computer engineering technology degree from DeVry, went to a KU career fair, and lined up a $50K job just like the recruiter said was possible.  I did have one neighbor give me a hard time about my degree.  He was another engineer that said "He earned his" and "mine was bought."  That man had no fudging clue as I can speak first-hand that the calculus, differential equations, electrical engineering design, etc. courses at DeVry (for profit) were every bit as difficult as courses at Johnson County Community College, Ottawa University (NAIA), and Kansas State University (D1).  

I worked 20 hours a week while taking 19 credit hours year-round at DeVry.  I worked 30 hours while taking 12 credit hours as KSU.  My total college education was about $65K and would have been less had I went to a KSU-D1 for 4 years.  It helped that I worked to pay for rent, food, car, etc. during that time.  I cannot fathom someone paying $250K for a college education unless they plan to be a surgeon.  As dumb as I was, I knew not to pay 7x for college than what my salary would be my first year.  Do people refuse to work and rather include loans for a vehicle, food, rent, etc. along with the college education?  

*Ego: I was an above-average KS wrestler but not great.  I medaled a few times and won a youth state tournament.  I was pinned in a HS state finals match by the head and arm. Thankfully my ego wasn't aware yet about a transitive win over Ben Askren that uses similar logic to a Monty Python burn the witch scene. 

**Wow I wrote a journal.

wow, that was incredible jross. What you just shared from the heart obviously meant a lot to you but just so you know, it meant a lot to those of us who read it too. Thanks for sharing that. You seem like you really got your sh*t together in life and for that you should be proud.

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Thank you for the compliment.  My hope is that sharing my story will help others understand that while technology has flattened the world, our blissfully ignorant children still need their parents to seek out information, to encourage them to take opportunities, and to guide them to make sound decisions that will prevent a lifetime of loan indebtedness.   Be a good parent.

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29 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Junior colleges can’t offer athletic scholarships can they?

Depending, schools can cover various things like tuition, room and board, only books, etc.  Maybe NCCC only covered books.  I cannot recall.  I know room and board wasn't offered.  I'll check up on it and update accordingly.

 

Edit #1:

Competing within a specific division of an NJCAA sponsored sport comes with specific policies and guidelines published in the NJCAA bylaws. Below are the current scholarship parameters for the three competition divisions of the association.

Division Scholarship Guidelines
Division I Colleges may grant full athletic scholarships (tuition, books, fees, room & board), up to $250 in course required supplies and transportation costs one time per academic year to and from the college by direct route. Each sport has limits on the number of scholarships that can be granted. 
Division II Colleges may grant athletic scholarships, but scholarships are limited to tuition, books, fees and up to $250 in course required supplies. Each sport has limits on the number of scholarships that can be granted. 
Division III Colleges are not permitted to offer any athletic scholarships

NOTE: If a sport does not have the numbers to break into separate divisions, it operates under the Division I scholarship guidelines. 

 

Edit #2 | Neosho County Community College

  • NJCAA ATHLETIC AWARD VARIES 
  • Awarded Letter of Intent by coach 
  • Must meet and abide by all NJCAA regulations, including GPA requirements 
  • Must abide by any & all team rules 
  • Scholarship amounts vary for all student athletes

An athletic scholarship to afford a community college is not necessary.  An associates degree is about 60 credit hours and NCCC's fees are $122 per credit hour (in-state residents).  That's about $7400.00.  That can be reduced if you had decent grades in high school and or qualify for other non-athletic scholarships.

Edited by jross

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So my first semester I earned a 1.0 GPA, lost my full academic scholarship and started taking out loans. My sole focus was wrestling, lifting weight and playing Counter Strike all night. I upped the GPA to 2.1 after the spring and summer semesters to remain eligible my sophomore year. I stayed around a 2.0 until my third year when I tore my ACL and couldn’t practice anymore.

i started going to class, putting in extra work and graduate with a 2.86.

Because of my high GRE score, and it being in the department I graduated from I got into a Masters Program where I earned a 4.0 for my degree. This allowed me to pursue and earn my doctorate, graduating with a 3.9 (damn longitudinal data analysis and structural equation modeling).

if I could do it over I never would have decided to wrestle in college. Between the injuries, memory loss and depression caused by head injuries and going into education rather than pursuing my passion for architecture (can’t be an athlete and be an architecture student as a freshman at VT) I regret it every day.

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7 minutes ago, HokieHWT said:

So my first semester I earned a 1.0 GPA, lost my full academic scholarship and started taking out loans. My sole focus was wrestling, lifting weight and playing Counter Strike all night. I upped the GPA to 2.1 after the spring and summer semesters to remain eligible my sophomore year. I stayed around a 2.0 until my third year when I tore my ACL and couldn’t practice anymore.

i started going to class, putting in extra work and graduate with a 2.86.

Because of my high GRE score, and it being in the department I graduated from I got into a Masters Program where I earned a 4.0 for my degree. This allowed me to pursue and earn my doctorate, graduating with a 3.9 (damn longitudinal data analysis and structural equation modeling).

if I could do it over I never would have decided to wrestle in college. Between the injuries, memory loss and depression caused by head injuries and going into education rather than pursuing my passion for architecture (can’t be an athlete and be an architecture student as a freshman at VT) I regret it every day.

Congrats on where you ended up despite injuries and depression

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7 hours ago, HokieHWT said:

So my first semester I earned a 1.0 GPA, lost my full academic scholarship and started taking out loans. My sole focus was wrestling, lifting weight and playing Counter Strike all night. I upped the GPA to 2.1 after the spring and summer semesters to remain eligible my sophomore year. I stayed around a 2.0 until my third year when I tore my ACL and couldn’t practice anymore.

i started going to class, putting in extra work and graduate with a 2.86.

Because of my high GRE score, and it being in the department I graduated from I got into a Masters Program where I earned a 4.0 for my degree. This allowed me to pursue and earn my doctorate, graduating with a 3.9 (damn longitudinal data analysis and structural equation modeling).

if I could do it over I never would have decided to wrestle in college. Between the injuries, memory loss and depression caused by head injuries and going into education rather than pursuing my passion for architecture (can’t be an athlete and be an architecture student as a freshman at VT) I regret it every day.

everyone wishes they could have done something different in their lives- its part of growing up. Sounds like you achieved more than most only dream about Hokie!

Edited by Marcus Cisero

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