Jump to content
maligned

Pan Am Qualifier draws

Recommended Posts


Ogal, I agree with you 100%. Very well written.
One request, can you re-read what you have written except swap out "Zain" for "Patrick Downey" and 2019 Worlds, and give it the same consideration. Very similar, in my opinion.
Oliver won the US Open and should have been the representative at 65kg. Zain hasn't wrestled in a year and did his best.

USA Wrestling gifted Taylor the spot as well. He didn't even compete last year


Maybe, they will rethink their bias. I highly doubt it.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, 77again said:

Ogal, I agree with you 100%. Very well written.

One request, can you re-read what you have written except swap out "Zain" for "Patrick Downey" and 2019 Worlds, and give it the same consideration. Very similar, in my opinion.

I see the point you are trying to make and I disagree, here’s why. I’ll consider Downey the backup for argument sake because if Taylor was healthy the spot was his and I don’t think anyone besides PDIII or his family could argue against that, Taylor was the defending world champ when he got hurt and he won in a dominant fashion. People are trying to make the case that JO or Yianni should have gone, why? Wrestling is fairly easy to figure out the depth chart. Have a match and the winner gets the spot. Zain did this, it was his spot. I’ll admit I am a PSU fan and supporter but I don’t think this is blind loyalty I think this is the fair way to do it. While I will continue to root for Zain my expectations continue to drop for his senior level career. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

 

Oliver won the US Open and should have been the representative at 65kg. Zain hasn't wrestled in a year and did his best.

USA Wrestling gifted Taylor the spot as well. He didn't even compete last year


Maybe, they will rethink their bias. I highly doubt it.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

The main reason to wrestle in the US open was to qualify for the trials, Zain was already qualified so their was no reason for him to wrestle. To my knowledge no other world team member wrestled in the open besides Snyder I think and he said it was to get some work in with his new coaches.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Red95 said:

I think whoever wins OTT goes.

My reply was to the question "how do we qualify the weight for Olympics" and so that's where my snarky response came from. Sorry for the confusion!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, 77again said:

Ogal, I agree with you 100%. Very well written.

One request, can you re-read what you have written except swap out "Zain" for "Patrick Downey" and 2019 Worlds, and give it the same consideration. Very similar, in my opinion.

USAW clearly wrote the rules for selecting who goes to the qualifier to favor Taylor. And that proved to be a good decision. Downey would have a legitimate argument for being sent to the qualifier as the returning world team member, but with the same draw, I don't think he would have made the finals. As for Zain, they didn't really have a choice, he was the returning world team member and hadn't since lost to someone from the US. There wasn't a medalist that was clearly a better option. While I think Yianni or JO would have qualified the weight, the only explanation for selecting them would have been personal belief, not actual results. (If you wanted to use the US open, it would have had to be stated prior so Zain could have entered if he wanted to.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Said it once I'll say it a million times. :)

Metcalf 2.0 (Zain)

Is a 50/50 bet against the top 20 wrestlers in the world. Legit 1 through 20... it's hard to guess heads or tails 2x in a row much less the 3 or 4x needed to medal. He could get hot and win the whole thing but as weve seen that's not been the case

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

The main reason to wrestle in the US open was to qualify for the trials, Zain was already qualified so their was no reason for him to wrestle. To my knowledge no other world team member wrestled in the open besides Snyder I think and he said it was to get some work in with his new coaches.  

This policy needs to change.  Far too much weight is given to what happened a year ago vs more recent events.  There isn't an honest person out there who thought that JO didn't give us teh best shot at getting 65 qualified this weekend.

JO was already qualified for OTTs and still competed at The US Open -- as did others.  And JO destroyed the field, that included Yianni.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

I see the point you are trying to make and I disagree, here’s why. I’ll consider Downey the backup for argument sake because if Taylor was healthy the spot was his and I don’t think anyone besides PDIII or his family could argue against that, Taylor was the defending world champ when he got hurt and he won in a dominant fashion. People are trying to make the case that JO or Yianni should have gone, why? Wrestling is fairly easy to figure out the depth chart. Have a match and the winner gets the spot. Zain did this, it was his spot. I’ll admit I am a PSU fan and supporter but I don’t think this is blind loyalty I think this is the fair way to do it. While I will continue to root for Zain my expectations continue to drop for his senior level career. 

Zain dodged JO and Yianni since last year.  JO was hurt when they wrestled.  JO didn't make a big deal about it, but Zain knew it.  When healthy, JO beat him every time -- including soem dominant matches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, ConnorsDad said:

Bias? Nah, huge Yianni fan. Thought ZR looked better until you know what happened. Not sure about the guy. Wrestles like a E.uropean

Who are you kidding?  You are one of the most biased posted on this board.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This policy needs to change.  Far too much weight is given to what happened a year ago vs more recent events.  There isn't an honest person out there who thought that JO didn't give us teh best shot at getting 65 qualified this weekend.

 

JO was already qualified for OTTs and still competed at The US Open -- as did others.  And JO destroyed the field, that included Yianni.

 

 

Hey man, it sucks that Zain lost, but I think most people understand he wins that match 9x out of 10... yes it was unfortunate but any* of our 3 couldve got randomly stuck and we would be here explaining why they were a bad choice. It Happened, now we sit here and hold our breath to see if we get a terrifying draw at the last chance, at an insanely deep weight.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Crash said:

This policy needs to change.  Far too much weight is given to what happened a year ago vs more recent events.  There isn't an honest person out there who thought that JO didn't give us teh best shot at getting 65 qualified this weekend.

JO was already qualified for OTTs and still competed at The US Open -- as did others.  And JO destroyed the field, that included Yianni.

 

 

I don't believe JO gave USA the best shot. I believe the guy who is currently #4 on the unofficial ladder gives the best shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, spladle08 said:

Hey man, it sucks that Zain lost, but I think most people understand he wins that match 9x out of 10... yes it was unfortunate but any* of our 3 couldve got randomly stuck and we would be here explaining why they were a bad choice. It Happened, now we sit here and hold our breath to see if we get a terrifying draw at the last chance, at an insanely deep weight.

 

 

 

Zain is to seniors as David Taylor is to fantasy matches. He always seems to find a way to win and always gets the excuses and rationale, except in real life. I completely agree with your Metcalf 2.0 sentiment. Iowa style is a crapshoot at best at the international level. Worked for Brands Bros, moderately worked for McIlravy and Joe Williams, failed for Metcalf, and TBD on Zain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey man, it sucks that Zain lost, but I think most people understand he wins that match 9x out of 10... yes it was unfortunate but any* of our 3 couldve got randomly stuck and we would be here explaining why they were a bad choice. It Happened, now we sit here and hold our breath to see if we get a terrifying draw at the last chance, at an insanely deep weight.  
 
 
He wasn't randomly stuck. He choked, again. He could get off his back.

Guys who would have won that bout: Eirerman, JO, Nick Lee, Pletchwr, Demas, and of course Yianni.

Keep making it excuses for Zain. He needs them!

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He wasn't randomly stuck. He choked, again. He could get off his back. Guys who would have won that bout: Eirerman, JO, Nick Lee, Pletchwr, Demas, and of course Yianni.

 

Keep making it excuses for Zain. He needs them!

 

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

I've called Zain "Metcalf" since he started wrestling seniors. I want to say I've led the charge of hating on his international potential. That said. Yeah he lost, yeah he got stuck, but yeah he is better than that guy. It was as close to a "choke" as you can get given the talent disparity. But.... 

 

 

1.) Dont lock this in to his "pattern" of losses. He usually loses to elite caliber wrestlers by the thinnest of margins... this was definitely an outlier... if you can find a similar loss, by all means do it. And quote me, and toot your horn as loud as you want to.

*this was random*

 

2.) Never accuse me of being an excuse maker for anything PSU... I hate on them and their talents continuously... Chamizo, JB, Cox... I'll turn over every rock I can to explain a result... Nickal, Taylor, Zain, Nolf... no matter the result, "they need more neutral offense to be effective internationally"... it's been my go to for years, not changing it now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

I've called Zain "Metcalf" since he started wrestling seniors. I want to say I've led the charge of hating on his international potential. That said. Yeah he lost, yeah he got stuck, but yeah he is better than that guy. It was as close to a "choke" as you can get given the talent disparity. But.... 

 

 

1.) Dont lock this in to his "pattern" of losses. He usually loses to elite caliber wrestlers by the thinnest of margins... this was definitely an outlier... if you can find a similar loss, by all means do it. And quote me, and toot your horn as loud as you want to.

*this was random*

 

2.) Never accuse me of being an excuse maker for anything PSU... I hate on them and their talents continuously... Chamizo, JB, Cox... I'll turn over every rock I can to explain a result... Nickal, Taylor, Zain, Nolf... no matter the result, "they need more neutral offense to be effective internationally"... it's been my go to for years, not changing it now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Taylor and Nickal don’t have enough offense?  Interesting...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, spladle08 said:
8 minutes ago, Mokoma said:
Taylor and Nickal don’t have enough offense?  Interesting...

Lol just typed the longest, sexiest, coherent response. And my app closed for whatever reason... time to type this ish again

Looking forward to hearing how these world champions lack offense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Taylor and Nickal don’t have enough offense?  Interesting...

Lol sooo

 

Nickal is great, love him, all that, but yes I dont think he has solid enough takedowns right now to be a senior medalist. Great counters, great funk, all that. But when it comes to the elite of the elite guys at seniors almost all of them have 1 or 2 great fundamental takedowns you know they're going to get to vs everyone. And down 2 with 30 seconds left, I just dont think he can create offense.

 

Taylor on the other hand, while he also has bad offense from neutral. He has otherworldly scrambling and overhwelming pace. So despite not being able to dominate a match from a clean takedowns standpoint, he grinds people down, to where as the match drags on, he's either able to dive in on a leg, or let somebody in on his legs and force a tired foreign opponent into numerous folkstyle positions he's far superior in. He's absolutely a monster at this and that's why hes our best bet at Gold. That said ....

 

I was super interested in Zahid vs DT. I think Zahid is better from neutral and unlike foreign competitors, he's very comfortable in those folkstyle positions. I think he would have been a big roadblock.

Ringer on the other hand, I think is a step down from Zahid but he also could provide significant resistance. Its incredibly unique that (imo) Taylor's style gives him a huge advantage internationally but may give him some close matches domestically.

if he was to lose to a Ringer/Zahid our chances of Gold would go from 50/50 to damn near 0. They just cant force the match that Taylor is able to force, and it really puts them at a disadvantage.

 

But yeah. I think those funky PSU guys could benefit from some solid go to neutral offense. Obviously DT is the world champ, but I think we can all agree that he's really put some time into creating a game that thrives without a solid go to takedown.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Looking forward to hearing how these world champions lack offense.
Lol don't be the guy that says "they won worlds and you're saying they suck"...

I'm saying neutral offense isnt a strong part of their game

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

Lol sooo

 

Nickal is great, love him, all that, but yes I dont think he has solid enough takedowns right now to be a senior medalist. Great counters, great funk, all that. But when it comes to the elite of the elite guys at seniors almost all of them have 1 or 2 great fundamental takedowns you know they're going to get to vs everyone. And down 2 with 30 seconds left, I just dont think he can create offense.

 

Taylor on the other hand, while he also has bad offense from neutral. He has otherworldly scrambling and overhwelming pace. So despite not being able to dominate a match from a clean takedowns standpoint, he grinds people down, to where as the match drags on, he's either able to dive in on a leg, or let somebody in on his legs and force a tired foreign opponent into numerous folkstyle positions he's far superior in. He's absolutely a monster at this and that's why hes our best bet at Gold. That said ....

 

I was super interested in Zahid vs DT. I think Zahid is better from neutral and unlike foreign competitors, he's very comfortable in those folkstyle positions. I think he would have been a big roadblock.

Ringer on the other hand, I think is a step down from Zahid but he also could provide significant resistance. Its incredibly unique that (imo) Taylor's style gives him a huge advantage internationally but may give him some close matches domestically.

if he was to lose to a Ringer/Zahid our chances of Gold would go from 50/50 to damn near 0. They just cant force the match that Taylor is able to force, and it really puts them at a disadvantage.

 

But yeah. I think those funky PSU guys could benefit from some solid go to neutral offense. Obviously DT is the world champ, but I think we can all agree that he's really put some time into creating a game that thrives without a solid go to takedown.

 

 

 

I smell what you are cooking here, but I think you are misunderestimating his offense. For example,  Cox is very tough to score on, but he managed it relatively early in their matches.  My understanding is we will see Zahid in the OTT.  He will overwhelm Nickal, Zahid and Das Ringer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I smell what you are cooking here, but I think you are misunderestimating his offense. For example,  Cox is very tough to score on, but he managed it relatively early in their matches.  My understanding is we will see Zahid in the OTT.  He will overwhelm Nickal, Zahid and Das Ringer. 
I'd love to see it. Either I'm right or wrong but would love for it to at least play out and not just be us gas-baggin.

Praying Zahid is allowed to go, and praying even further that one of Ringer/Zahid is on the same side as Taylor. Lol I just want to see both those matches.

Obviously Taylor is favored over everyone. Just want to see it play out. I really think Zahid is 50/50. But if he gets ran over... pass me some crow to snack on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, spladle08 said:

Lol sooo

 

Nickal is great, love him, all that, but yes I dont think he has solid enough takedowns right now to be a senior medalist. Great counters, great funk, all that. But when it comes to the elite of the elite guys at seniors almost all of them have 1 or 2 great fundamental takedowns you know they're going to get to vs everyone. And down 2 with 30 seconds left, I just dont think he can create offense.

 

Taylor on the other hand, while he also has bad offense from neutral. He has otherworldly scrambling and overhwelming pace. So despite not being able to dominate a match from a clean takedowns standpoint, he grinds people down, to where as the match drags on, he's either able to dive in on a leg, or let somebody in on his legs and force a tired foreign opponent into numerous folkstyle positions he's far superior in. He's absolutely a monster at this and that's why hes our best bet at Gold. That said ....

 

I was super interested in Zahid vs DT. I think Zahid is better from neutral and unlike foreign competitors, he's very comfortable in those folkstyle positions. I think he would have been a big roadblock.

Ringer on the other hand, I think is a step down from Zahid but he also could provide significant resistance. Its incredibly unique that (imo) Taylor's style gives him a huge advantage internationally but may give him some close matches domestically.

if he was to lose to a Ringer/Zahid our chances of Gold would go from 50/50 to damn near 0. They just cant force the match that Taylor is able to force, and it really puts them at a disadvantage.

 

But yeah. I think those funky PSU guys could benefit from some solid go to neutral offense. Obviously DT is the world champ, but I think we can all agree that he's really put some time into creating a game that thrives without a solid go to takedown.

 

 

 

 

52 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

I smell what you are cooking here, but I think you are misunderestimating his offense. For example,  Cox is very tough to score on, but he managed it relatively early in their matches.  My understanding is we will see Zahid in the OTT.  He will overwhelm Nickal, Zahid and Das Ringer. 

Nickal has great offense and is a beast, he just happens to be behind two world champs. I, a keyboard warrior, am of the mindset that he is choosing the wrong weight. Better to have an underdog's chance at 86 than be third fiddle at best up at 97

Taylor is the new US style - less offense, more scrambling and points. This can and will backfire at the end of matches, but sometimes an opponent just can't help when you dangle the leg or let your arm sag even if they know it is trouble.

Ringer is Iowa+ style. He has slick takedowns combined with a brutal style but I'm concerned he is up a bit too much and bulk-jobs only go so far when you do it clean (fight me, I am saying it).

Is Zahid going to be cleared for OTT? is WADA/USADA - NCAA a one way street? or does USADA/WADA respect NCAA testing as well? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...