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MatJunkie

Stop sending Zain as our rep

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16 minutes ago, IronChef said:


Too bad his opponent didn't have the same chance to prepare emoji849.png

The point I failed to make is Yianni and JO have both seen more international success.  They have both beat world medalists and/or won international tournaments.  Zain has not.  He had months to prepare for Yianni and still barely got that win.  Correct, Yianni could/should have prepared more for Zain or had a better game plan.  I think JO/Yianni has a much better shot to bring home a medal at World's/Olympics than ZR.

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the only one not mentioned in this thread is Pico, he is clearly our best shot. lol.

all kidding aside, i still believe it will be Yianni who is our rep and who will qualify the weight. Zain was a great college wrestler because of his ability to ride on top, that's no longer working.

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Sort of. The last couple cycles, there have been two levels of world qualifiers and 19 total participants per weight at the Olympics. The first one used to qualify 3 per weight (J'Den qualified through that one) and the second qualified 2 (Molinaro got to the alternate spot that ended up qualifying him after drug tests through this one). This time, participants have been reduced to 16 at the Olympics, so we only get the final qualifier with 2 qualifying. 

My response was stating that an NGB can only send one athlete per weight class to the last chance qualifier.  Hence, you cannot see Oliver, Yianni and Zain at the LCQ.

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1 hour ago, CoachWrestling said:

He really didn't earn that trip at all. He hasn't done anything this year to prove it. 

How is that?  He's our World Team member.  Of course he earned it. 

mspart

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18 hours ago, mspart said:

How is that?  He's our World Team member.  Of course he earned it. 

mspart

Top three are world team members.  I think what people are getting at is that Zain hasn’t won any international tournaments.  He does well beating Americans, but he can’t seem to perform as one would expect “the guy” to perform.  

Russia is so good because the wrestlers are chosen by a panel of coaches, trainers, psychiatrists and sports psychologists to pick the best person that fits a world champ profile.   Medved is one such example.  

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6 minutes ago, Cptafw164 said:

Top three are world team members.  I think what people are getting at is that Zain hasn’t won any international tournaments.  He does well beating Americans, but he can’t seem to perform as one would expect “the guy” to perform.  

Russia is so good because the wrestlers are chosen by a panel of coaches, trainers, psychiatrists and sports psychologists to pick the best person that fits a world champ profile.   Medved is one such example.  

Top three are national team members, not world team.

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On 3/16/2020 at 10:39 AM, MatJunkie said:

Zain is a heck of a wrestler, but his style does not translate to international success.  He is very good domestically, but it is time to stop sending him as a rep for Team USA.  Send Yianni or JO.

You do that, and no one will show up for the trials. Becomes a pet-first tournament. 

I hope that you aren't a coach of any team - because this sort of thinking destroys morale.

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You do that, and no one will show up for the trials. Becomes a pet-first tournament. 
I hope that you aren't a coach of any team - because this sort of thinking destroys morale.
They should have stipulated that the US open champ gets a best of three for the spot if it's not qualified for the Olympics. We've done this in the past with fantastic results.

Are you guys OK with Taylor's gift as well?

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They should have stipulated that the US open champ gets a best of three for the spot if it's not qualified for the Olympics. We've done this in the past with fantastic results.



This.




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22 hours ago, Cptafw164 said:

Top three are world team members.  I think what people are getting at is that Zain hasn’t won any international tournaments.  He does well beating Americans, but he can’t seem to perform as one would expect “the guy” to perform.  

Russia is so good because the wrestlers are chosen by a panel of coaches, trainers, psychiatrists and sports psychologists to pick the best person that fits a world champ profile.   Medved is one such example.  

Russia is so good because the have the best wrestlers in the world.  Whatever method they use to choose their team, they would still be the best in the world.

I suspect a committee would not have chosen Cox or Molinaro last Olympics (or Slay or Jamil Kelley)

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5 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Russia is so good because the have the best wrestlers in the world.  Whatever method they use to choose their team, they would still be the best in the world.

I suspect a committee would not have chosen Cox or Molinaro last Olympics (or Slay or Jamil Kelley)

Yup, or Dennis.

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They still have a Russian National tournament. Just wondering if we were Russia, if Cox's, Molinaro's, or Dennis' win would've been enough to earn the spot. Interesting to think about. We don't have the proven guys, so maybe. 

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The idea that Zain's style hasn't transitioned well to freestyle must be news to the guys he keeps beating to make the team.

Who did he beat this year? He just choked against some kid from Argentina.  

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On 3/21/2020 at 2:45 PM, IronChef said:

The idea that Zain's style hasn't transitioned well to freestyle must be news to the guys he keeps beating to make the team.

The suggestion that Zain's style has a low ceiling in INTERNATIONAL freestyle, even though he's capable of winning specific familiar matchups domestically, is not without merit or precedent.

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1 hour ago, maligned said:

The suggestion that Zain's style has a low ceiling in INTERNATIONAL freestyle, even though he's capable of winning specific familiar matchups domestically, is not without merit or precedent.

Thus why the Russian system for choosing a representative is more than just their single tournament trial results.  They are almost more interested in which top level guys that you have shown you can beat or at least hang with internationally than the back and forth results you have had with some home grown competition.  

Edited by MadMardigain

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On 3/19/2020 at 4:04 PM, cjc007 said:

They should have stipulated that the US open champ gets a best of three for the spot if it's not qualified for the Olympics. We've done this in the past with fantastic results.

Are you guys OK with Taylor's gift as well?

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

Never have been a fan of "gifts".

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On 3/19/2020 at 5:04 PM, cjc007 said:

They should have stipulated that the US open champ gets a best of three for the spot if it's not qualified for the Olympics. We've done this in the past with fantastic results.

Are you guys OK with Taylor's gift as well?

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

There are issues with giving the open champ this consideration.  The 2018 and 2019 world team members are already qualified for the trials along with the 2019 Bill Ferrell champ so the top 3 guys at a weight could have little reason to wrestle at the open and that number could even be greater with guys going up and down from non Olympic weights.   

If making this rule means that past world team members and the Bill Farrell champ will go to the open that will reduce the number of qualifiers at the OTT.  Is that desired?  Also this makes a weird event where only a few weights are contested in best of three format which might be difficult to promote.   If it is the two best guys at the weight then the open+pan am qualifier wrestle off would almost be the Olympic trials before the Olympic trials.  I’d be more in favor of moving up the timing of the Olympic trials to before the pan am qualifier than adding another layer of wrestle offs specifically for the qualifier, but as a matter of practicality I don’t think it makes much difference.

What was the last time your proposal was done in men’s freestyle?  I recall in 2012 two wrestlers were exempted from the OTT so they could prepare for qualifying tournaments with those wrestlers gifted a spot in a mini bracket with the wrestler that won the tournament at the OTT.  The wrestler who was not exempted from the trials won that mini bracket and later medaled at the Olympics.

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There are issues with giving the open champ this consideration.  The 2018 and 2019 world team members are already qualified for the trials along with the 2019 Bill Ferrell champ so the top 3 guys at a weight could have little reason to wrestle at the open and that number could even be greater with guys going up and down from non Olympic weights.   
If making this rule means that past world team members and the Bill Farrell champ will go to the open that will reduce the number of qualifiers at the OTT.  Is that desired?  Also this makes a weird event where only a few weights are contested in best of three format which might be difficult to promote.   If it is the two best guys at the weight then the open+pan am qualifier wrestle off would almost be the Olympic trials before the Olympic trials.  I’d be more in favor of moving up the timing of the Olympic trials to before the pan am qualifier than adding another layer of wrestle offs specifically for the qualifier, but as a matter of practicality I don’t think it makes much difference.
What was the last time your proposal was done in men’s freestyle?  I recall in 2012 two wrestlers were exempted from the OTT so they could prepare for qualifying tournaments with those wrestlers gifted a spot in a mini bracket with the wrestler that won the tournament at the OTT.  The wrestler who was not exempted from the trials won that mini bracket and later medaled at the Olympics.
Zain has now had two chances to qualify the weight.

Taylor didn't compete at all last year. He was gifted the spot. Are you ok with that?

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If folks don't want Zain to be the rep, perhaps they can sponsor other wrestlers who have a chance?

Otherwise keep hating as he keeps winning the required matches to be our rep.

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