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Extra year solution

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2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

You're not taking away anything from the freshman other then possible the ability to participate at a chosen school...they can still participate.  They don't have to lose anything if they don't want to.  The wrestlers this season have no choice.

1) It might create the opposite of a meritocracy in some circumstances. Coaches will do what’s best for their programs and inevitably they’d have to decide whether to start the senior one more season or lose their promising freshmen forever. Would Cael trade 4 years of Carter Starroci for 1 more year of Mark Hall? You shouldn’t assume the decision of who starts will be determined by wrestle-off. 

2) How do you handle scholarship allocations? Coaches plan those out years in advance. PSU didn’t anticipate having Cenzo and Hall on their scholarship payroll next year. Giving seniors an extra year means guys like Nick Lee probably wind up taking on more student debt (I don’t know anything about Nick Lee’s background I just used him as an example).

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1 hour ago, ionel said:

I'm with you on that one.  Very very rare that one can get thru a PhD program without being able to read and write.  Sure some don't require math.  It certainly could happen but I've never seen it.  Generally a lot of reading and writing required and if can not write a coherent sentence, paragraph, thesis, etc. pretty hard to pass prelims, committee requirements, etc.  

Also, note he want's you to ask at "separate times," probably sharing a keyboard & computer screen with someone  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I addressed that as well, “ask at two times,” like that proves anything lol

Edited by Schuteandscore

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1 hour ago, ionel said:

 

 

I'm with you on that one.  Very very rare that one can get thru a PhD program without being able to read and write.  Sure some don't require math.  It certainly could happen but I've never seen it.  Generally a lot of reading and writing required and if can not write a coherent sentence, paragraph, thesis, etc. pretty hard to pass prelims, committee requirements, etc.  

Also, note he want's you to ask at "separate times," probably sharing a keyboard & computer screen with someone  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Put your money wear your mouth is.  Bet me I don't have a doctorate.  East to prove. Just time consuming.  

Show integrity and don't be a weasel. 

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39 minutes ago, Schuteandscore said:

I addressed that as well, “ask at two times,” like that proves anything lol

Showing up at your door with a doctorate degree diploma with my identification would pretty much prove it.  And if you weren't happy with that then we could both go to the very public president of seminary where she would identify me as a graduate.  But that would take time.  My school was in VA.  I live many states away now.  But if we bet 100,000 and a private firm holds onto money until we find out if I am bluffing or not.  Put your money where your mouth is. 

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1 hour ago, MDogg said:

1) It might create the opposite of a meritocracy in some circumstances. Coaches will do what’s best for their programs and inevitably they’d have to decide whether to start the senior one more season or lose their promising freshmen forever. Would Cael trade 4 years of Carter Starroci for 1 more year of Mark Hall? You shouldn’t assume the decision of who starts will be determined by wrestle-off. 

2) How do you handle scholarship allocations? Coaches plan those out years in advance. PSU didn’t anticipate having Cenzo and Hall on their scholarship payroll next year. Giving seniors an extra year means guys like Nick Lee probably wind up taking on more student debt (I don’t know anything about Nick Lee’s background I just used him as an example).

2 is easy, you waive the scholarships for the the people getting the extra out of the allocation.

1, to me, is also easy, because the senior can transfer.  He is not denied the opportunity to compete for a championship.

These are extraordinary circumstances and as such call for extraordinary measures.  Right now, there are a bunch of college athletes being punished for something completely outside of their control.  If we can rectify that, we should.  They have lost the opportunity.  Freshmen won't be losing the opportunity, they will still have the choice to change schools or try to beat out the senior, etc.  They will still have that opportunity.  If we leave it as is, the seniors won't.

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16 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

That's you.  Anyway you guys are just trying to get me to go into gutter with you.  I fell for trap again.  

I don’t want you to prove it man, I was just busting your chops because you say that people on here attack people and say they are 2 different handles, when you were accusing someone of the very same thing recently, no worries, I believe you.  

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You would have to assume that every school is going to increase the budget for wrestling to make up for the additional scholarships.  The bigger programs are probably not going to be a problem, but it might be for a school like Northern Colorado.

Also I hear talk of not allowing Spencer Lee a chance to be a 4 timer, but that goes for every freshman.  None of them will have a chance to be a 4 time National champ or a 4 time AA.

To me, it needs to be all qualifiers get the year back or none do

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8 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

2 is easy, you waive the scholarships for the the people getting the extra out of the allocation.

1, to me, is also easy, because the senior can transfer.  He is not denied the opportunity to compete for a championship.

These are extraordinary circumstances and as such call for extraordinary measures.  Right now, there are a bunch of college athletes being punished for something completely outside of their control.  If we can rectify that, we should.  They have lost the opportunity.  Freshmen won't be losing the opportunity, they will still have the choice to change schools or try to beat out the senior, etc.  They will still have that opportunity.  If we leave it as is, the seniors won't.

I wonder what schools would benefit with seniors coming back compared to those who would not benefit.  I don't think penn st would benefit.  I am not sure if ohio state has a decent 197 and 141 pounder for next year.

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44 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

I wonder what schools would benefit with seniors coming back compared to those who would not benefit.  I don't think penn st would benefit.  I am not sure if ohio state has a decent 197 and 141 pounder for next year.

UNI would benefit.  Schwarm, Steiert, Thomsen and Lujan

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3 hours ago, ionel said:

 

 

I'm with you on that one.  Very very rare that one can get thru a PhD program without being able to read and write.  Sure some don't require math.  It certainly could happen but I've never seen it.  Generally a lot of reading and writing required and if can not write a coherent sentence, paragraph, thesis, etc. pretty hard to pass prelims, committee requirements, etc.  

Also, note he want's you to ask at "separate times," probably sharing a keyboard & computer screen with someone  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Then go ahead bet me 100,000 that the person behind the shield of pistis screename does not have a doctorate from accredited facility.  If you are so sure just bet or admit you are mistaken. 

I must say out of all the people on this board you are probably the biggest trouble maker....at least to me.

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1 hour ago, shieldofpistis said:

Put your money wear your mouth is.  Bet me I don't have a doctorate.  East to prove. Just time consuming.  

Show integrity and don't be a weasel. 

A pastor at a local church? Yet a doctorate?

Can cite a minimum of 5 of the 7 in this thread alone.

Again... just stop. You're making yourself look a fool and disrespecting those you claim to be in company with.

To clarify: Bugger off.

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59 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

I wonder what schools would benefit with seniors coming back compared to those who would not benefit.  I don't think penn st would benefit.  I am not sure if ohio state has a decent 197 and 141 pounder for next year.

Decatur at 141 and Singletary at 197 

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7 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

A pastor at a local church? Yet a doctorate?

Can cite a minimum of 5 of the 7 in this thread alone.

Again... just stop. You're making yourself look a fool and disrespecting those you claim to be in company with.

To clarify: Bugger off.

5 of 7 what?

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10 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

A pastor at a local church? Yet a doctorate?

Can cite a minimum of 5 of the 7 in this thread alone.

Again... just stop. You're making yourself look a fool and disrespecting those you claim to be in company with.

To clarify: Bugger off.

I don't submit to internet tough guys. 

I am not bragging.  Get that through your head.  I never bragged.  But when I go 4 years bachelor and then 3 years full time masters at toughest school in my denomination and then spend years working as pastor full time while writing dissertation....it urks me when someone said I didn't do all of that.  Do you even have slightest idea how tough ancient Hebrew is to learn?  Did you know Jehovah is mistranslation of Yahweh?  I would explain how but you wouldn't get it.  Please stop saying I did not earn something that I put about 12 years into overall.

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53 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

Then go ahead bet me 100,000 that ...

Sure I'll bet you 100,000 on anything you want, in fact I'll let you take whichever side of the bet you want.   I'm in for 100,000 just let me know the bet.  ;_;

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57 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

I don't submit to internet tough guys. 

I am not bragging.  Get that through your head.  I never bragged.  But when I go 4 years bachelor and then 3 years full time masters at toughest school in my denomination and then spend years working as pastor full time while writing dissertation....it urks me when someone said I didn't do all of that.  Do you even have slightest idea how tough ancient Hebrew is to learn?  Did you know Jehovah is mistranslation of Yahweh?  I would explain how but you wouldn't get it.  Please stop saying I did not earn something that I put about 12 years into overall.

Stop. Just. Stop.

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2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

2 is easy, you waive the scholarships for the the people getting the extra out of the allocation.

1, to me, is also easy, because the senior can transfer.  He is not denied the opportunity to compete for a championship.

These are extraordinary circumstances and as such call for extraordinary measures.  Right now, there are a bunch of college athletes being punished for something completely outside of their control.  If we can rectify that, we should.  They have lost the opportunity.  Freshmen won't be losing the opportunity, they will still have the choice to change schools or try to beat out the senior, etc.  They will still have that opportunity.  If we leave it as is, the seniors won't.

Giving the seniors an extra year won’t rectify the situation it only shifts the burden. You say “there are college athletes being punished for something completely outside their control.” That’s absolutely 100% true but you then argue for a solution which just shifts the burden and doesn’t help the problem. Do you think there will magically be more schools with wrestling programs or more weight classes next year if seniors get another year? It’s not really a matter of opinion, it’s math. You’re solution would only result in more people having to change schools, leave their friends and schools they choose, have their scholarship levels adjusted, etc. It’s also naive to think it won’t mean more college wrestlers wind up taking on more debt. Even if the NCAA makes an allowance for more scholarships next season that won’t matter to the dozens of D1 teams that currently give out less than the 9.9 scholarship limit. 

I 100% agree that these are extraordinarily circumstances and there are college athletes being punished for something that’s outside of their control. I just don’t think we should stick our heads in the sand and pretend like there’s a solution that’s results in fewer net victims.

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Giving the seniors an extra year won’t rectify the situation it only shifts the burden. You say “there are college athletes being punished for something completely outside their control.” That’s absolutely 100% true but you then argue for a solution which just shifts the burden and doesn’t help the problem. Do you think there will magically be more schools with wrestling programs or more weight classes next year if seniors get another year? It’s not really a matter of opinion, it’s math. You’re solution would only result in more people having to change schools, leave their friends and schools they choose, have their scholarship levels adjusted, etc. It’s also naive to think it won’t mean more college wrestlers wind up taking on more debt. Even if the NCAA makes an allowance for more scholarships next season that won’t matter to the dozens of D1 teams that currently give out less than the 9.9 scholarship limit. 

I 100% agree that these are extraordinarily circumstances and there are college athletes being punished for something that’s outside of their control. I just don’t think we should stick our heads in the sand and pretend like there’s a solution that’s results in fewer net victims.

It doesn't result in people having to do anything. They will have a choice. It's not a perfect solution, but it's the only solution that allows EVERYBODY to have some recourse and ability to compete. The incoming wrestlers will bear some burden, but not the same kind of burden that the kids this year have to bear. They will still have an opportunity to compete at 4 NCAA tournaments, which is the accepted measurement we use to judge collegiate wrestling success.

 

ETA: there will be fewer victims since we know not every wrestler will come back. But also, it makes it so the people who are victims have a recourse, as opposed to now.

 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

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