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MJS

If you could change the way a wrestling match was scored

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It is understandable that wrestling has always recognized pinning as winning, if you were losing by 14 points in the first period, then caught and pinned someone, do you really walk away from the match feeling like you won?  Do you feel like you would beat that opponent two out of three matches?  To someone reading the score years from now, do they really understand who the better wrestler was on that day?

To me, takedowns and pins are what draws the interest of a spectator, not so much tilts.

Takedown: 3 pts

Escape: 1 pt

Optional Start: 0 pts for escape

Push Release (Obvious Release for escape during live wrestling while opponent is not on his feet): 0 pts for escape

Reversal: 2 pts

Backpoints:
2 sec: 1 pt
3 sec: 2 pts
4 sec: 3 pts

Pin: 5 pts (includes the 3 back pts), back to neutral

Take opponent down and pin twice, Technical Superiority (Technical Fall): (3+5) + (3+5) = 16 to 0

Overtime: 1 min, First to Score

Still no score, then:
Referee Decision: First pin of the match, If there was no pin then first takedown of the match, If no takedown then first backpoints, if no backpoints then the most reversals of the match, If no reversals then first earned escape of the match, If no escape then least stall calls (first points scored is a better than most recent score because it would create more action at the beginning of the match), still no decisio then two 30 sec rideouts

Team Points for a dual:
Decision: 3 pts (win by 4 pts)
Major Decision: 4 pts (win by 8 pts)
Technical Superiority:  6 pts (win by 16 pts)

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Wrestling will never be a popular sport like football, basketball and baseball but the thing those three sports have in common is consistency.

Even though wrestling is more of an evolving sport, I am still amazed every year when we change multiple rules each year and make the sport non-understandable by casual fans.

We will continue to shoot ourselves in the foot over and over again.

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I agree with the 3 point takedown.  Nothing quite as frustrating as taking a guy down 4 times and kicking him out to only see an 8-4 lead.  The only thing that could get dicey here is not giving an escape for a kick out or release.  I understand if you start after a break in the match and show the ref you want to release and not giving the point, but if action is occurring and the bottom guy keeps getting to his feet and returned and the top guy just lets him go, I think he earned that point.  This also could give the official more to think about and subjectivity comes in on when the escape happens.  The 3 point takedown already gets rid of that issue so I think just keep escapes, but good thoughts.  I have a different idea, but it can look more freestyle based which would lead to an explosion from die hard folk style fans and not for this thread. 

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4 hours ago, Boompa said:

Wrestling will never be a popular sport like football, basketball and baseball but the thing those three sports have in common is consistency.

Even though wrestling is more of an evolving sport, I am still amazed every year when we change multiple rules each year and make the sport non-understandable by casual fans.

We will continue to shoot ourselves in the foot over and over again.

"Wrestling will never be a popular sport like football, basketball and baseball but the thing those three sports have in common is consistency."

But it could be...

While wrestling has always had an abundance of super talented wrestlers, it lacks individuals capable of promoting it beyond its current standings when compared to other sports. Take a look at the NCAA Championships – Billy freaken’ Baldwin??? Is this clown the best we can do during the most important event of the season?  This is why I have so much respect for FLO. Here’s a group of individuals who think, eat and sleep wrestling. They’re always thinking out of the box with fresh new ideas with each passing year and I firmly believe the bigger guns are listening and following their lead. B1G increased their coverage of wrestling 40% this year and much of their highlights of individual wrestlers and teams I believe coat-tails FLO’s idea of doing the same. Imitation is the best form of flattery, and quite frankly we need more of it – much more before our meager footprint in the sports world goes beyond a blip on the radar screen.

Edited by Marcus Cisero

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7 minutes ago, Marcus Cisero said:

"Wrestling will never be a popular sport like football, basketball and baseball but the thing those three sports have in common is consistency."

But it could be...

While wrestling has always had an abundance of super talented wrestlers, it lacks individuals capable of promoting it beyond its current standings when compared to other sports. Take a look at the NCAA Championships – Billy freaken’ Baldwin??? Is this clown the best we can do during the most important event of the season?  This is why I have so much respect for FLO. Here’s a group of individuals who think, eat and sleep wrestling. They’re always thinking out of the box with fresh new ideas with each passing year and I firmly believe the bigger guns are listening and following their lead. B1G increased their coverage of wrestling 40% this year and much of their highlights of individual wrestlers and teams I believe coat-tails FLO’s idea of doing the same. Imitation is the best form of flattery, and quite frankly we need more of it – much more before our meager footprint in the sports world goes beyond a blip on the radar screen.

Billy Baldwin also donated loads of money and became a huge spokesperson and saved Binghamton’s program.  He may not be as relevant media wise as he once was, but he’s proven to completely support wrestling and the fact he did that, I am ok with him being involved.

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11 minutes ago, Schuteandscore said:

Billy Baldwin also donated loads of money and became a huge spokesperson and saved Binghamton’s program.  He may not be as relevant media wise as he once was, but he’s proven to completely support wrestling and the fact he did that, I am ok with him being involved.

thats excellent and I commend him for that but we need to do better. Wrestling needs / deserves someone to do for wrestling (promotion-wise) what Dana White did for the UFC.  We lack individuals with the knowledge, experience, creativity, communication skills and most of all - CUJONES to elevate the sport to the level it deserves. 

IMO - Baldwin should not be involved with broadcasting during the NCAA. No way.

Edited by Marcus Cisero

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Takedowns 2 points, escapes 4 points (encourages control once the takedown is accomplished).  Each 30 seconds of riding time = 1 point. No mercy rule (tech falls = gone).  Double exposure results in NF points for BOTH (bye bye tilts).

Failure to score in a match results in summary execution immediately following the match.

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15 hours ago, MJS said:

It is understandable that wrestling has always recognized pinning as winning, if you were losing by 14 points in the first period, then caught and pinned someone, do you really walk away from the match feeling like you won?  Do you feel like you would beat that opponent two out of three matches?  To someone reading the score years from now, do they really understand who the better wrestler was on that day?

To me, takedowns and pins are what draws the interest of a spectator, not so much tilts.

Takedown: 3 pts

Escape: 1 pt

Optional Start: 0 pts for escape

Push Release (Obvious Release for escape during live wrestling while opponent is not on his feet): 0 pts for escape

Reversal: 2 pts

Backpoints:
2 sec: 1 pt
3 sec: 2 pts
4 sec: 3 pts

Pin: 5 pts (includes the 3 back pts), back to neutral

Take opponent down and pin twice, Technical Superiority (Technical Fall): (3+5) + (3+5) = 16 to 0

Overtime: 1 min, First to Score

Still no score, then:
Referee Decision: First pin of the match, If there was no pin then first takedown of the match, If no takedown then first backpoints, if no backpoints then the most reversals of the match, If no reversals then first earned escape of the match, If no escape then least stall calls (first points scored is a better than most recent score because it would create more action at the beginning of the match), still no decisio then two 30 sec rideouts

Team Points for a dual:
Decision: 3 pts (win by 4 pts)
Major Decision: 4 pts (win by 8 pts)
Technical Superiority:  6 pts (win by 16 pts)

Optional Start = 0 will not work. It rewards the guy who is not able to ride.

Example: If I know I cannot hold my opponent down I will always go 0 point optional start.

 

It also basically makes choosing down worthless as it gives the top man the option to just cut the bottom guy loose with no punishment.

Example: Wrestler A has choice and chooses down. Wrestler B does Optional start. Wrestlers are now neutral.

 

As for scoring a pin when losing by 14 points? Yes I feel as if I won. The ultimate goal is to secure a pin. Everything else up until that point is a consolation prize and used to determine the winner IF and ONLY IF a pin was not secured.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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4 minutes ago, Marcus Cisero said:

thats excellent and I commend him for that but we need to do better. Wrestling needs / deserves someone to do for wrestling (promotion-wise) what Dana White did for the UFC.  We lack individuals with the knowledge, experience, creativity, communication skills and most of all - CUJONES to elevate the sport to the level it deserves. 

Well Dana White has access to much more money and the ability to promote a sport, which is professional and not under all the rules and regulations of the NCAA.  I understand your point though.

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5 hours ago, Boompa said:

Wrestling will never be a popular sport like football, basketball and baseball but the thing those three sports have in common is consistency.

Even though wrestling is more of an evolving sport, I am still amazed every year when we change multiple rules each year and make the sport non-understandable by casual fans.

We will continue to shoot ourselves in the foot over and over again.

Wrestling is pretty stupid when it comes to attracting fans (real wrestling, anyway, fake wrestling has oodles of fans). Remember when the IOC announced they were doing away with wrestling as a medal sport, and the outrage which followed (and the IOC backed down)? Here's the thing: I wrestled for nearly 20 years, love watching folk wrestling (and even Greco, although I don't fully understand Greco's rules). But international FS? SNOOOZEFEST!! I could barely stand to watch Olympic wrestling, or the Worlds. Now how in the hell is a casual, who doesn't know anything about wrestling at all, supposed to enjoy international FS wrestling?

Let's face it, FS wrestling isn't going to win over any new fans to the sport. The stupid rules they've had over the years, like the ball grab debacle they used for awhile, the push outs, ugh, I hate it. I'd rather watch sumo than FS. Think about that: I'd rather watch 400 pound fat men wearing diapers and ridiculous hairstyles than FS.

Edited by TobusRex

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16 minutes ago, Marcus Cisero said:

thats excellent and I commend him for that but we need to do better. Wrestling needs / deserves someone to do for wrestling (promotion-wise) what Dana White did for the UFC.  We lack individuals with the knowledge, experience, creativity, communication skills and most of all - CUJONES to elevate the sport to the level it deserves. 

Comparing wrestling to UFC from our perspective seems obvious, but I can tell you many MMA fans do not see it that way. I have a number of Co-Workers who are die-hard UFC fans and some of their favorite fighters are wrestlers. They all acknowledge that many of the best fighters are wrestlers. They simply have no interest in wrestling. Watched the Iowa PSU dual this year with a few of them and pretty much all of them responded with yea I'm not into that "gay stuff." The particular person who said that also happens to be a huge Ben Askren fan.

Another parallel is this. Holly Holms comes from a Kickboxing background. When she beat Ronda Rousey and she was the biggest news in MMA there wasnt a sudden interest boom in women's kickboxing.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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3 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

Wrestling is pretty stupid when it comes to attracting fans (real wrestling, anyway, fake wrestling has oodles of fans). Remember when the IOC announced they were doing away with wrestling as a medal sport, and the outrage which followed (and the IOC backed down)? Here's the thing: I wrestled for nearly 20 years, love watching folk wrestling (and even Greco, although I don't fully understand Greco's rules). But international FS? SNOOOZEFEST!! I could barely stand to watch Olympic wrestling, or the Worlds. Now how in the hell is a casual, who doesn't know anything about wrestling at all, supposed to enjoy international FS wrestling?

Let's face it, FS wrestling isn't going to win over any new fans to the sport. The stupid rules they've had over the years, like the ball grab debacle they used for awhile, the push outs, ugh, I hate it. I'd rather watch sumo than FS. Think about that: I'd rather watch 400 pound fat men wearing diapers and ridiculous hairstyles than FS.

During the 90s to the late 2000's each Olympics has completely different FS scoring rules. If thats not a way to kill the sport I dont know what is...

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Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

During the 90s to the late 2000's each Olympics has completely different FS scoring rules. If thats not a way to kill the sport I dont know what is...

They keep trying to make it fun for non-wrestlers, which is a pipedream.

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1 hour ago, TobusRex said:

Wrestling is pretty stupid when it comes to attracting fans (real wrestling, anyway, fake wrestling has oodles of fans). Remember when the IOC announced they were doing away with wrestling as a medal sport, and the outrage which followed (and the IOC backed down)? Here's the thing: I wrestled for nearly 20 years, love watching folk wrestling (and even Greco, although I don't fully understand Greco's rules). But international FS? SNOOOZEFEST!! I could barely stand to watch Olympic wrestling, or the Worlds. Now how in the hell is a casual, who doesn't know anything about wrestling at all, supposed to enjoy international FS wrestling?

Let's face it, FS wrestling isn't going to win over any new fans to the sport. The stupid rules they've had over the years, like the ball grab debacle they used for awhile, the push outs, ugh, I hate it. I'd rather watch sumo than FS. Think about that: I'd rather watch 400 pound fat men wearing diapers and ridiculous hairstyles than FS.

That’s super weird man.

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