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Who Would Be In Your Mount Rushmore for College Wrestling

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3 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

Mokomo saying he only considered Stieber a 2 time champ started it- that was the base. And I don't understand how you could think Ramos won that 

That wasn’t me, that was TobusRex.

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1 hour ago, tightwaist said:

That’s a dumb argument.  Outside of Oklahoma and Iowa, who knew much about collegiate wrestling before the 60’s.  My western Pa youth program started in 1972.  Hmmm, wonder why that was?? 

I’m guessing you never wrestled!?  As a result, you can’t understand what Gable meant to young wrestlers in the 70’s, 80 and 90’s.  Ask Lee Kemp who made him want to be an NCAA & World Champ. Ask the Brands.  Gable had a ripple effect that has carried on to this generation of wrestlers.

If the founders of the sport deserve more credit than Gable for nationalizing collegiate wrestling, then surely Thomas Paine deserves to be on Mt Rushmore more so than Jefferson or Lincoln.  

 

I’d say that you have to consider those who created the rule set and popularized folkstyle to the point that it became a high school and college sponsored sport. It’s hard to imagine making a bigger impact than that.
 

If you’re curious about who knew about wrestling before the 60s, you could begin by looking up which schools sponsored wrestling before then. Surely people at those schools knew.
 

Finally, it would be difficult to put Paine in a list of most impactful presidents when he was never the President.

Edited by Katie

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2 hours ago, jackwebster said:

Jackson? Who am I hanging out with here? Deviants

He had an incredible influence on the country. Whether you think that influence was good, bad, or in between is a separate question.

Edited by Katie

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22 hours ago, NJDan said:

The latter to are only 2X champs. But you omit 2 4X champs and 30 or so 3X champs

 

My list was posted before the thread was changed to college.

But if we’re including coaching, I think I keep Cael, Gable and John Smith.  Then trade out Burroughs for Dake.

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52 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

Cop out

Hey Shield.. why are you trying to drag other people into an argument you're having with someone else. Are incapable of proving your own point without the help of others? I spoke NOTHING over Stieber vs Ramos. I have NOTHING to do with that argument. Once again you are expect others to do your dirty work. How lazy are you? You are one if the most self-entitled posters on this board.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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4 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

I saw that over and over.  TV had one angle.  Ref was right there.  If you call that then you must call myles over bo.

False because Bo was never even close to being pinned in ANY angle whether it be on TV or otherwise.

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First, let me say this is a very interesting topic and I respect all of the opinions expressed. As an FYI, I have attended 47 NCAA tournaments and talked to most of the great coaches and champions from the 1950s-2000s in my journalism career. When Katie mentioned Frank Gotch, I thought of a comment in 1933 by Nat Fleischer, founder of The Ring magazine and the most respected boxing-wrestling writer of the first half of the 20th Century --- "It was Gotch's victories .... that made him the most popular mat star in America and started a movement among college men to take up wrestling." 

Also, Paul Scott, coach of the 1947 Cornell College team that won the NCAA title; Dave McCuskey, coach of the 1950 Iowa Teachers team that won the NCAA title, and Dr. Harold Nichols, coach of the great Iowa State teams of the 1960s, all told me that it was Frank Gotch who they they admired most as young boys.

Ed Gallagher had a tremendous impact on college wrestling during his career at Oklahoma A&M. He used to take long trips in the summer to Vermont to learn the techniques and tricks of the great collar-and-elbow stars and then put that knowledge to use  at Oklahoma A&M  to build one of the first true dynasties in college sports.

Dan Hodge's impact has been immense for over 50 years. He is still the only wrestler to appear on the cover of Sports  Illustrated and the biggest trophy in college wrestling bears his name. He is the only athlete to ever win national titles in both boxing and wrestling and is an icon in the MMA world. For 20 years-plus, Dan traveled the nation to inspire young wrestlers. BTW, in 1956 he won the NCAA title, national freestyle and national G-R tournament, all with pins!

Dan Gable took the sport to a new level as a pure freshman when he won the Midlands (when it was arguably the toughest meet in the nation) because the media began following him like no other wrestler since the days of Gotch back in 1910. He was featured in many of the nation's  major newspapers and magazines, including Sports Illustrated and even GQ magazine. He was the guest on several TV shows and film stars like Tom Cruise gushed over him. The Wall Street Journal called him "Super Wrestler" in an article and two books were written about him. 

During his career at Iowa State, Gable drew huge crowds and at one point had 24 straight pins. He was 118-1 and defeated a total of 5 NCAA  champions, including three who were 2-timers!. His senior year he moved up a weight to take on the defending NCAA champion at 150, Mike Grant of Oklahoma, and beat him, 9-4.  Gable inspired so many young boys to take up the sport. President Bush even appointed Dan to the President's Council on Physical Fitness . ... showing his enduing impact on the sport.

And Cael Sanderson -- can there be any debate?. Going 159-0 and being named OW 4 times and winning the Dan Hodge Trophy 3 times.. Sports Illustrated said his college performance is the second most impressive college feat in history, only behind Jesse Owens setting 4 world records in track on the same day for Ohio State.

So, I agree with Gockes when he listed Ed Gallagher, Dan Hodge, Dan Gable and Cael Sanderson. And that is not to slight other great wrestlers like Pat Smith, Lee Kemp, Tom Brands and Kyle Dake. If the criteria was Americans in freestyle, then John Smith, Bruce Baumgartner, Mark and Dave Schultz, Lee Kemp, Jordan Burroughs and Kyle Snyder all enter the conversation, IMO.

Again, great topic. Keep it going!

 

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13 hours ago, iwrite said:

First, let me say this is a very interesting topic and I respect all of the opinions expressed. As an FYI, I have attended 47 NCAA tournaments and talked to most of the great coaches and champions from the 1950s-2000s in my journalism career. When Katie mentioned Frank Gotch, I thought of a comment in 1933 by Nat Fleischer, founder of The Ring magazine and the most respected boxing-wrestling writer of the first half of the 20th Century --- "It was Gotch's victories .... that made him the most popular mat star in America and started a movement among college men to take up wrestling." 

Also, Paul Scott, coach of the 1947 Cornell College team that won the NCAA title; Dave McCuskey, coach of the 1950 Iowa Teachers team that won the NCAA title, and Dr. Harold Nichols, coach of the great Iowa State teams of the 1960s, all told me that it was Frank Gotch who they they admired most as young boys.

Ed Gallagher had a tremendous impact on college wrestling during his career at Oklahoma A&M. He used to take long trips in the summer to Vermont to learn the techniques and tricks of the great collar-and-elbow stars and then put that knowledge to use  at Oklahoma A&M  to build one of the first true dynasties in college sports.

Dan Hodge's impact has been immense for over 50 years. He is still the only wrestler to appear on the cover of Sports  Illustrated and the biggest trophy in college wrestling bears his name. He is the only athlete to ever win national titles in both boxing and wrestling and is an icon in the MMA world. For 20 years-plus, Dan traveled the nation to inspire young wrestlers. BTW, in 1956 he won the NCAA title, national freestyle and national G-R tournament, all with pins!

Dan Gable took the sport to a new level as a pure freshman when he won the Midlands (when it was arguably the toughest meet in the nation) because the media began following him like no other wrestler since the days of Gotch back in 1910. He was featured in many of the nation's  major newspapers and magazines, including Sports Illustrated and even GQ magazine. He was the guest on several TV shows and film stars like Tom Cruise gushed over him. The Wall Street Journal called him "Super Wrestler" in an article and two books were written about him. 

During his career at Iowa State, Gable drew huge crowds and at one point had 24 straight pins. He was 118-1 and defeated a total of 5 NCAA  champions, including three who were 2-timers!. His senior year he moved up a weight to take on the defending NCAA champion at 150, Mike Grant of Oklahoma, and beat him, 9-4.  Gable inspired so many young boys to take up the sport. President Bush even appointed Dan to the President's Council on Physical Fitness . ... showing his enduing impact on the sport.

And Cael Sanderson -- can there be any debate?. Going 159-0 and being named OW 4 times and winning the Dan Hodge Trophy 3 times.. Sports Illustrated said his college performance is the second most impressive college feat in history, only behind Jesse Owens setting 4 world records in track on the same day for Ohio State.

So, I agree with Gockes when he listed Ed Gallagher, Dan Hodge, Dan Gable and Cael Sanderson. And that is not to slight other great wrestlers like Pat Smith, Lee Kemp, Tom Brands and Kyle Dake. If the criteria was Americans in freestyle, then John Smith, Bruce Baumgartner, Mark and Dave Schultz, Lee Kemp, Jordan Burroughs and Kyle Snyder all enter the conversation, IMO.

Again, great topic. Keep it going!

 

Good post. Gable was also wrestling's Bobby Fischer. The Soviet Union vowed to find someone to beat him at the 1972 Olympics, they failed. The whole nation watched as he won gold without giving up a single point. He was a huge sports hero and energized the sport like no other. 

Edited by headache

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14 hours ago, iwrite said:

First, let me say this is a very interesting topic and I respect all of the opinions expressed. As an FYI, I have attended 47 NCAA tournaments and talked to most of the great coaches and champions from the 1950s-2000s in my journalism career. When Katie mentioned Frank Gotch, I thought of a comment in 1933 by Nat Fleischer, founder of The Ring magazine and the most respected boxing-wrestling writer of the first half of the 20th Century --- "It was Gotch's victories .... that made him the most popular mat star in America and started a movement among college men to take up wrestling." 

Also, Paul Scott, coach of the 1947 Cornell College team that won the NCAA title; Dave McCuskey, coach of the 1950 Iowa Teachers team that won the NCAA title, and Dr. Harold Nichols, coach of the great Iowa State teams of the 1960s, all told me that it was Frank Gotch who they they admired most as young boys.

Ed Gallagher had a tremendous impact on college wrestling during his career at Oklahoma A&M. He used to take long trips in the summer to Vermont to learn the techniques and tricks of the great collar-and-elbow stars and then put that knowledge to use  at Oklahoma A&M  to build one of the first true dynasties in college sports.

Dan Hodge's impact has been immense for over 50 years. He is still the only wrestler to appear on the cover of Sports  Illustrated and the biggest trophy in college wrestling bears his name. He is the only athlete to ever win national titles in both boxing and wrestling and is an icon in the MMA world. For 20 years-plus, Dan traveled the nation to inspire young wrestlers. BTW, in 1956 he won the NCAA title, national freestyle and national G-R tournament, all with pins!

Dan Gable took the sport to a new level as a pure freshman when he won the Midlands (when it was arguably the toughest meet in the nation) because the media began following him like no other wrestler since the days of Gotch back in 1910. He was featured in many of the nation's  major newspapers and magazines, including Sports Illustrated and even GQ magazine. He was the guest on several TV shows and film stars like Tom Cruise gushed over him. The Wall Street Journal called him "Super Wrestler" in an article and two books were written about him. 

During his career at Iowa State, Gable drew huge crowds and at one point had 24 straight pins. He was 118-1 and defeated a total of 5 NCAA  champions, including three who were 2-timers!. His senior year he moved up a weight to take on the defending NCAA champion at 150, Mike Grant of Oklahoma, and beat him, 9-4.  Gable inspired so many young boys to take up the sport. President Bush even appointed Dan to the President's Council on Physical Fitness . ... showing his enduing impact on the sport.

And Cael Sanderson -- can there be any debate?. Going 159-0 and being named OW 4 times and winning the Dan Hodge Trophy 3 times.. Sports Illustrated said his college performance is the second most impressive college feat in history, only behind Jesse Owens setting 4 world records in track on the same day for Ohio State.

So, I agree with Gockes when he listed Ed Gallagher, Dan Hodge, Dan Gable and Cael Sanderson. And that is not to slight other great wrestlers like Pat Smith, Lee Kemp, Tom Brands and Kyle Dake. If the criteria was Americans in freestyle, then John Smith, Bruce Baumgartner, Mark and Dave Schultz, Lee Kemp, Jordan Burroughs and Kyle Snyder all enter the conversation, IMO.

Again, great topic. Keep it going!

 

Again, great topic. Keep it going!

Great input - keep contributing!

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5 hours ago, Marcus Cisero said:

shield - like many, I've watched a lot wrestling and many other interesting stuff on YouTube - even taught myself how to fix a neighbors leaky sink.

As I was searching around one day I came across some videos who's author uses the same name tag as you use here. Looking at some of the topics posted it sounds a lot like you. Is that you??? I'm just curious.

Yes.  Never hid that.  I actually invited people to go to my site if they thought thought I was jimmy because after seeing the YouTube page you know I'm not him. 

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6 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

Yes.  Never hid that.  I actually invited people to go to my site if they thought thought I was jimmy because after seeing the YouTube page you know I'm not him. 

For the record I dont believe you are Jimmy Cinnabon, but I hope you realise that inviting people to your Youtube page only confirms who you "shieldofpistis" is. It doesnt prove that you arent Jimmy Cinnabon.

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44 minutes ago, Cementmixer103 said:

In regards to Steiber vs Ramos..

I think that sequence in the 2nd period should've been scored 2+2 for Ramos. 

I think the takedown they didn't give JO the year prior was a worse call though. 

Even with 2 back pts Logan wins by 1.  He won match by 3.

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11 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

Even with 2 back pts Logan wins by 1.  He won match by 3.

Thats assuming everything in that match continues and play out exactly the same. If Ramos was awarded the 2 near fall the 2nd period ends 6-5 instead of 6-3 with Ramos' choice in the 3rd.. ramos escapes in the begining of the 3rd and now its 6-6 with the guy who scores next winning the match. 

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Headache- -- Good way to put it..."He energized the sport like no other." 

Marcus -- Thanks for the nice comment. I've been writing about the sport in various ways for 50 years, including my first book in 1976 called "Two Guys Named Dan". You can probably guess who it was about. 

 Medicine Man -- THAT IS TRULY AWESOME!

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