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Who Would Be In Your Mount Rushmore for College Wrestling

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6 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

We both should realize that even if there were bad calls; stieber and hall both did enough to win and ramos and bo did not.

I do realize that.

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I have come across devoted MMA fans and MMA practitioners have more of an appreciation of folkstyle's early history than almost everybody on this board. It's interesting. But wrestling fans like Iwrite restore my hope.

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Thanks, Katie. Speaking of folkstyle's early history, if you go on You Tube,  you can see videos of  Curran Jacobs, former Michigan State star (captain of the 2012 Spartan team and round of 12 at NCAA) showing catch wrestling moves. Also some of his great matches at the United World Catch Championships in 2018 when he defeated three much much larger wrestlers, all of whom had extensive submission backgrounds. Each match went about 30 minutes. Curran is undefeated in catch matches and also 5-0 in MMA, and has spent time with Randy Couture and Dan Severn discussing old -style wrestling. Then if you type in Curran's name and my name on the same line, you will see him in my den sitting in Frank Gotch's favorite chair, doing curls with a barbell given to me by Lou Thesz, and also trying to squeeze the headlock machine developed by Ed "Strangler" Lewis and owned for many years by Dan Hodge.  I have written 31 books, including biographies of Gotch, Hodge and the great Earl Caddock a legend from the 1915-1920 era -- Mike Chapman

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19 minutes ago, iwrite said:

Thanks, Katie. Speaking of folkstyle's early history, if you go on You Tube,  you can see videos of  Curran Jacobs, former Michigan State star (captain of the 2012 Spartan team and round of 12 at NCAA) showing catch wrestling moves. Also some of his great matches at the United World Catch Championships in 2018 when he defeated three much much larger wrestlers, all of whom had extensive submission backgrounds. Each match went about 30 minutes. Curran is undefeated in catch matches and also 5-0 in MMA, and has spent time with Randy Couture and Dan Severn discussing old -style wrestling. Then if you type in Curran's name and my name on the same line, you will see him in my den sitting in Frank Gotch's favorite chair, doing curls with a barbell given to me by Lou Thesz, and also trying to squeeze the headlock machine developed by Ed "Strangler" Lewis and owned for many years by Dan Hodge.  I have written 31 books, including biographies of Gotch, Hodge and the great Earl Caddock a legend from the 1915-1920 era -- Mike Chapman

Frankly, I'll just go ahead and accept your opinion as to the Mt. Rushmore of college wrestling. As far as I'm concerned, your opinion is close to authoritative as we're likely to get on this forum.

I'll try to read your work eventually. I have a ton of books on my docket already, but I'll try to throw at least one of yours in there too.

Edited by Katie

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On 3/28/2020 at 12:31 PM, shieldofpistis said:

Let's be real. Washington is greatest.  Other 2 understandable.  But teddy doesn't belong 

FDR is could live with. 

Teddy established the NPS...AND he was a wrestling junkie. Gotta keep him. 

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College Only Mt Rushmore:

 

Kyle Dake- as a former middleweight, mind-blowing to go up a weight each year and win, win, win 

Sanderson- So dominant and rarely a close match, though I still count his loss to Jenn as a loss, officially

Gable-  He set the bar- a total pin-meister

Kemp- Hosed out of 4 for 4, no redshirt

 

Freestyle

John Smith- most incredible- changed the way wrestling is done

Jordan Burroughs- crazy good

Bruce Baumgartner-most medals

Dave Schultz- 7 medals

Greco

Dennis Hall

Jeff Blatnick

Rulon Gardner

Dremiel Byers

 

 

 

 

 

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On 3/28/2020 at 3:01 PM, shieldofpistis said:

Not on topic but did you watch history channel special about Washington?

Way too many commercials. What did JFK actually do in his 1000 days as president?  Im not sure he would have been re-elected in '64

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On 3/27/2020 at 1:56 PM, Mokoma said:

For me this one is simple currently if it’s college wrestling specific.

1. Pat Smith

2. Cael Sanderson

3. Kyle Dake

4. Logan Stieber

Good Lord.  If reffed in truth, Stieber wins two.  Steiber was great, but shouldn't be on the Mt. Rushmore.

Your bias against Gable is grievous.  He had 25 pins in a row, lost once, and his fame alone merits him being there.  

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On 3/29/2020 at 8:14 AM, headache said:

Good post. Gable was also wrestling's Bobby Fischer. The Soviet Union vowed to find someone to beat him at the 1972 Olympics, they failed. The whole nation watched as he won gold without giving up a single point. He was a huge sports hero and energized the sport like no other. 

I think in the year leading up to the Olympics, through all the trials, he only surrendered 1 point.  I think it was like an 8-1 victory over Larry Owings.  

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On 3/27/2020 at 7:34 PM, tightwaist said:

Dan Gable influenced American folkstyle wrestling more than any other wrestler, outside of Cael Sanderson.

I don't think even Cael has influenced it more.  In what way?  Look at the number of coaches that came from Gable.  Look at where conditioning is now compared to the past.  

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1 hour ago, HoundedHawk said:

Good Lord.  If reffed in truth, Stieber wins two.  Steiber was great, but shouldn't be on the Mt. Rushmore.

Your bias against Gable is grievous.  He had 25 pins in a row, lost once, and his fame alone merits him being there.  

He was only a 2 time champ.  Can’t be on a Rushmore unless coaching is included.  Logan is a 4X champ and world champ.  

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Well, after some discussion with Medicine Man today over the Mt. Rushmore of wrestling, I finally decided to try my first attempt at his skills...for my first attempt I'll take it.  I included who I think belongs in there and a couple he wanted in there as well....NO, not Jadidi!!!!  LOL.  In case someone may not recognize one of two.....the mountain includes Hodge, Baumgartner, Burroughs, Gable, Schultz, Gallagher and Sanderson....they were not in that order for any reason other than they fit together pretty well that way.  No way that mountain should only have 4.  Fadz     49717911183_178e845ca8_b.jpg

 

Edited by fadzaev2

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On 3/30/2020 at 8:57 PM, fadzaev2 said:

Well, after some discussion with Medicine Man today over the Mt. Rushmore of wrestling, I finally decided to try my first attempt at his skills...for my first attempt I'll take it.  I included who I think belongs in there and a couple he wanted in there as well....NO, not Jadidi!!!!  LOL.  In case someone may not recognize one of two.....the mountain includes Hodge, Baumgartner, Burroughs, Gable, Schultz, Gallagher and Sanderson....they were not in that order for any reason other than they fit together pretty well that way.  No way that mountain should only have 4.  Fadz     49717911183_178e845ca8_b.jpg

 

Don't be too hard on me Medicine Man....Fadz

Edited by fadzaev2

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57 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

3 guys who have won twice?  That’s a crazy list if it’s college only.

Does number of titles really matter though?

The OP was... 

"Curious what four individulas you believe past/present have shaped the wrestling world so much they could have their face on a Mt Rushmore for the sport?"

 

Gotta think that there are more influential things to shaping this sport than winning NCAA titles...

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1 hour ago, Mokoma said:

He was only a 2 time champ.  Can’t be on a Rushmore unless coaching is included.  Logan is a 4X champ and world champ.  

World champ is irrelevant. If you're going that route Gable was far more accomplished, winning world's and Olympic gold without surrendering a point.  There is no one on this planet that will say Stieber was a better international wrestler than Gable.  

He can't be on Mt. Rushmore because he lost 1 match?  By that standard throw Stieber away.  He lost 2 matches, and 5 more as a true freshman.  

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1 hour ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Does number of titles really matter though?

The OP was... 

"Curious what four individulas you believe past/present have shaped the wrestling world so much they could have their face on a Mt Rushmore for the sport?"

 

Gotta think that there are more influential things to shaping this sport than winning NCAA titles...

Okay fair.

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5 hours ago, HoundedHawk said:

I don't think even Cael has influenced it more.  In what way?  Look at the number of coaches that came from Gable.  Look at where conditioning is now compared to the past.  

We are both arguing the same point about Gable.  It’s crazy that some don’t think Gable is even worthy.   It is a lay-up.  He is numero uno on the list.  

Cael has had an immense impact on wrestling.  He is this generations Gable.  David Taylor would have followed him anywhere.  The non stop, attacking style has fundamentally changed wrestling.  Let’s face it, in the 90’s and early 2000’s, there were plenty of snoozer matches that were 3-2, defensive struggles.  Cael completely changed that.  First as a wrestler, and then as a coach.  It is why everyone wants to watch Penn State wrestle.  Cael has made wrestling more enjoyable to watch...regardless of which team you follow.  He is the face of amateur wrestling, and will be for the next decade (it he wants to).

 

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On 3/28/2020 at 4:24 PM, tightwaist said:

That’s a dumb argument.  Outside of Oklahoma and Iowa, who knew much about collegiate wrestling before the 60’s.  My western Pa youth program started in 1972.  Hmmm, wonder why that was?? 

I’m guessing you never wrestled!?  As a result, you can’t understand what Gable meant to young wrestlers in the 70’s, 80 and 90’s.  Ask Lee Kemp who made him want to be an NCAA & World Champ. Ask the Brands.  Gable had a ripple effect that has carried on to this generation of wrestlers.

If the founders of the sport deserve more credit than Gable for nationalizing collegiate wrestling, then surely Thomas Paine deserves to be on Mt Rushmore more so than Jefferson or Lincoln.  

 

Common Sense was a helluva pamphlet.

That said, if wrestling, even just folkstyle, had a singular "founder", a la Naismith, that person would surely be on its Rushmore.

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