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Winter sports denied extra year of eligibility

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15 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

You're changing the subject. I was responding to OP, who says the NCAA tourney is just another tourney. I disagree - it's far more important than other in-season tourneys. If you disagree with that, I'd say you don't follow the sport.

Sure it is more significant but that isn’t how you decide a season.  
 

Enough season was completed to consider it a full season. 
 

There isn’t any remedy that is justifiable.  Which is exactly why people are trying to engineer some convoluted system to try to get wrestlers to be able to come back next year.  Absurd things like “how about they only wrestle in the NCAAs but not the regular season”, or “maybe only wrestle in open tournaments but not duals”, etc.  

The NCAA championship is just another event.  It just happens to be the one that we value the most.  
 

Athletes got a full season.  This is no different than if an athlete had to miss the NCAA tournament due to their flight being cancelled due to a blizzard, or they got an injury or anything else.  They would not be granted another year because they completed a season and only missed one event. It just happened to be the biggest event. 

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3 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

But, the way wrestling is structured, it can be argued that they truly did NOT get their season. In fact, this year was a big example of the NCAA Tournament being basically all that matters with so many top wrestlers wresting so few matches.

  Hell, if not for the RPI mandatory match limit, many top guys wouldn’t have even had 15 matches after their conference championships.  This was especially true of Iowa and PSU’s schedule. 

I am not saying that they definitively deserve a full season, I would advocate for 1 semester, but I do believe the qualifying wrestlers have as strong of an argument as possible out of every sport eligible. So much is decided by that last tournament for individual status, while a sport like basketball picks its AA’s The same way they would regardless. 

I said earlier that it was too much of a logistical nightmare for it too happen, but that doesn’t mean I don’t think it should have. 

Just because some wrestlers chose not to value the regular season, doesn’t mean a season was not offered. Those athletes chose to selectively participate.  
 

The fact that people are trying to come up with some convoluted “solutions” like your one semester proposal is proof to me that people don’t seriously believe they deserve a season. 
 

We don’t need to persist this problem into future years.  Allowing graduating seniors to compete in next years NCAAs negatively impacts next year’s tournament and all the athletes that wrestled the wholes season. 
 

There is no solution that will make these athletes whole.  Their opportunity was lost.  We can’t change that.  Any attempt to do so would be majorly flawed.  The right call is to move on. 

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19 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

 So much is decided by that last tournament for individual status, while a sport like basketball picks its AA’s The same way they would regardless. 

Interestingly women's NCAA lacrosse selected AAs (don't ask me why I know this), despite only completing a fraction of their spring season.

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31 minutes ago, IronChef said:

Nobody, including OP, said anything of the sort.

while "just another tourney" may be a bit of an exaggeration, kyleinthecircle called it "a single tournament."  Yes, it's a "single tournament," but in wrestling, that's pretty much the whole season.  It decides both the team and individual champions.  Which is why I think had there been a dual team championship, it may have reduced the sting just a little.

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3 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

Interestingly women's NCAA lacrosse selected AAs (don't ask me why I know this), despite only completing a fraction of their spring season.

The All-American designation didn’t come from the NCAA. What group awarded it?  Likely a media group.  

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14 hours ago, Sheerstress said:

Was there any talk as to whether athletes with a redshirt year remaining might be able to apply it?  Or did they simply say that everyone loses a year regardless?

What they said is that the 5 year window to complete 4 years of eligibility does not get altered for winter sports. So if you have a redshirt you can still use it in the future, but you would not be able to retroactively apply it to this past season. This past season counts toward both your four years of competition and your 5 year window.

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They should at least reward the to 8 ranked wrestlers at each weight class all american. They earned their ranking based off their season performance. That way, wrestlers like Chaz Tucker can finally obtain all american status since that was his last chance. Either that or allow wrestlers to use un-used reshirts. 

Regardless, the whole situation just sucks. 

Edited by Daybreak

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All but 120 or so wrestlers who had an outside chance to Win or be an AA were able to get educated and reached their full wrestling potential.  Many of the 120 are not seniors so they will have another chance. The seniors mostly had 4.9 years of college and should be thankful.  The very best will continue wrestling Freestyle. 

This is a global pandemic.  People are dying, doctors and medical professionals are risking their lives, businesses are cratering, people are unable to pay their bills.  It doesn't take much to see that the problems of the few dozen senior potential AAs don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. 

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17 minutes ago, Daybreak said:

They should at least reward the to 8 ranked wrestlers at each weight class all american. They earned their ranking based off their season performance. That way, wrestlers like Chaz Tucker can finally obtain all american status since that was his last chance. Either that or allow wrestlers to use un-used reshirts. 

Regardless, the whole situation just sucks. 

NFW - Chaz may have had the weakest schedule of any to top 5 seed.  He never wrestled a Top 10 wrestler all year, and barely beat the #11 and #12 guys  His average opponent rating in 2020 was in the high 50s.   Damn unlikely he makes it to or through the blood round. 

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29 minutes ago, TFBJR said:

All but 120 or so wrestlers who had an outside chance to Win or be an AA were able to get educated and reached their full wrestling potential.  Many of the 120 are not seniors so they will have another chance. The seniors mostly had 4.9 years of college and should be thankful.  The very best will continue wrestling Freestyle. 

This is a global pandemic.  People are dying, doctors and medical professionals are risking their lives, businesses are cratering, people are unable to pay their bills.  It doesn't take much to see that the problems of the few dozen senior potential AAs don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. 

I don’t think saying it’s not fair that these athletes lost their championship is taking anything away from the seriousness of the current situation.   The last time the NCAA’s were canceled was during WW2.  That was a pretty serious situation too, and from what I’ve read they got extra eligibility.

Honestly, some of the reasons you listed are even more reason why they should have received another year of eligibility, especially if they were not guaranteed to get scholarship money like seems to be the case for the spring athletes:  it could be more tuition money for schools, as well as giving kids a chance to earn/work towards a grad degree with an extra year of eligibility.

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8 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I don’t think saying it’s not fair that these athletes lost their championship is taking anything away from the seriousness of the current situation.   The last time the NCAA’s were canceled was during WW2.  That was a pretty serious situation too, and from what I’ve read they got extra eligibility.

Honestly, some of the reasons you listed are even more reason why they should have received another year of eligibility, especially if they were not guaranteed to get scholarship money like seems to be the case for the spring athletes:  it could be more tuition money for schools, as well as giving kids a chance to earn/work towards a grad degree with an extra year of eligibility.

I'm not aware of any extra eligibility for anyone that wrestled during the war. Those that went to war were extended similarly to suspending your D1 clock nowadays for military service.

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I'm totally bummed about the tournament as a fan.  If it was my son I would encourage him to be sad for a set period of time - maybe a week, and then suck it up.  Never look back.  Be grateful for what you had - 5 years of top flight education and the joy of competing - all at zero or almost no expense for the seniors who were going to do well at the tourney.   This is real life.  It isn't fair, but it can be pretty damn good.   My 2 cents. 

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I think many of us agree that the 16 week regular season needs to “mean more” than it currently does. The circumstances of this Season (cancelled Championships)  highlites the obvious shortcoming IMO.

Not exactly sure how we realistically make the Regular Season mean MORE (Dual Championship, etc.).

I would like to see more meaningful discussion on this topic from our current leaders, high profile coaches, media/FLO, etc.

Edited by Show_Me

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2 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

I'm not aware of any extra eligibility for anyone that wrestled during the war. Those that went to war were extended similarly to suspending your D1 clock nowadays for military service.

Maybe you're right, hard to find info on it.

Barney Poole apparently played 7 years of D1 football though - https://www.espn.com/college-football/news/story?id=2035898

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"They got their season" absolutely is obtuse and "there's real problems affecting the world" absolutely is off-topic. This is a problem and it's one NCAA can fix.

Edited by jon

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2 hours ago, TFBJR said:

I'm totally bummed about the tournament as a fan.  If it was my son I would encourage him to be sad for a set period of time - maybe a week, and then suck it up.  Never look back.  Be grateful for what you had - 5 years of top flight education and the joy of competing - all at zero or almost no expense for the seniors who were going to do well at the tourney.   This is real life.  It isn't fair, but it can be pretty damn good.   My 2 cents. 

your two cents made a lot of sense.

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I see a number of people here and on social media screaming this isn't right and only goes to show the NCAA is......(insert derogatory remark here).

I'll pose the same question here I did to those screaming for a makeshift national tourney to put on.  For all those of you screaming the NCAA needs to..... how much time have you spent diving into working out everything that would need to be worked out, with consideration to all of the sports and all of the athletes in those sports, before coming to this claim that the NCAA just needs to..........and if they don't then it shows they care nothing about the athletes?

Its a fair question, and I don't think it is out of line at all to ask for an answer to go along with your screaming about how this is the wrong thing to do.

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32 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

I love people on this thread repeatedly telling us life isn't fair. As if a message board full of former wrestlers don't already know this.

Many may  “already know this” but the majority of the know-it-alls here lack the ability to convey it so nicely like TFBJR.  

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35 minutes ago, Show_Me said:

I think many of us agree that the 16 week regular season needs to “mean more” than it currently does. The circumstances of this Season (cancelled Championships)  highlites the obvious shortcoming IMO.

Not exactly sure how we realistically make the Regular Season mean MORE (Dual Championship, etc.).

No team championship at the NCAA individual tournament.  
 

The team champion is determined via a dual championship where teams must qualify.  Every conference gets an auto-bid. The remaining slots are determined via at-large selections based on their total season results in duals.  

This makes duals have more significance and makes matches in duals have dual importance (qualifying the individual for the NCAA tournament and the team for the dual NCAA tournament). 
 

 

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2 hours ago, Pinnum said:

No team championship at the NCAA individual tournament.  
 

The team champion is determined via a dual championship where teams must qualify.  Every conference gets an auto-bid. The remaining slots are determined via at-large selections based on their total season results in duals.  

This makes duals have more significance and makes matches in duals have dual importance (qualifying the individual for the NCAA tournament and the team for the dual NCAA tournament). 
 

 

THe solution is to have a Team Champion and a Dual Team Champion like many high school states do. The NCAA needs to be open to the idea of having 2 team championships. That sole thing is the barrier to having duals crown a team champion.

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