Jump to content
BigTenFanboy

Winter sports denied extra year of eligibility

Recommended Posts

32 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

THe solution is to have a Team Champion and a Dual Team Champion like many high school states do. The NCAA needs to be open to the idea of having 2 team championships. That sole thing is the barrier to having duals crown a team champion.

One championship per sport.  That is not an unreasonable requirement.  
 

Moving to a dual championship gains a lot and losses very little. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Pinnum said:

No team championship at the NCAA individual tournament.  

The team champion is determined via a dual championship where teams must qualify.  Every conference gets an auto-bid. The remaining slots are determined via at-large selections based on their total season results in duals.  

This makes duals have more significance and makes matches in duals have dual importance (qualifying the individual for the NCAA tournament and the team for the dual NCAA tournament). 

Eventually the wrestling world will figure out a duals team championship is needed to keep the sport vital and popular.
When the Olympics almost canceled the sport it seemed like people realized the sport was broken.  You need meaningful regular season drama to attract new fans. But since then the dual season has just gotten more meaningless and boring. 

The individual tournament would be just as exciting without a team race. There are only one or two teams that have a shot anyway.
The glory of the tournament is watching the great matchups.   The color of their signlet is way down the list of interest value.  It  truly is an individual tournament already.

Unfortunately the wrestling diehard fans love the tournament just the way it is. I get that. But we'll have much more fun overall if we take a risk and extend the excitement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Full Nelson said:

Eventually the wrestling world will figure out a duals team championship is needed to keep the sport vital and popular.
When the Olympics almost canceled the sport it seemed like people realized the sport was broken.  You need meaningful regular season drama to attract new fans. But since then the dual season has just gotten more meaningless and boring. 

The individual tournament would be just as exciting without a team race. There are only one or two teams that have a shot anyway.
The glory of the tournament is watching the great matchups.   The color of their signlet is way down the list of interest value.  It  truly is an individual tournament already.

Unfortunately the wrestling diehard fans love the tournament just the way it is. I get that. But we'll have much more fun overall if we take a risk and extend the excitement.

You underestimate the excitement/value of the team component in the tournament.

2 team championships. Tournament and Duals. NCAA needs to be open to it. And dont bring up how other sports have 1 team champ. Wrestling is unlike all of those sports.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

except an accurate reflection on who is truly the best team.

The NCAA basketball tournament doesn't deteremine the best team.   No single eliminatin tournament does that very well.  So what? Do you not consider the NCAA basketball tournament or the NFL playoff season a great success?

80% of the time the winner of a duals competetion will be the winner of a torunament. The dominant team is almost always strong at both facets.

Right now all we have is a 3-day season.   The advantage of adding an exciting duals season (plus playoff?) far outweighs any imperfection in picking the national champ.  The winner of a duals competition certainly has made a great accomplishment, if in a slightly different sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

except an accurate reflection on who is truly the best team.

You don’t think duals are a good measure of teams head to head.  
 

Okay, then why do we even have them?  They are expensive as the require a lot of travel for few matches.  They are taxing on athletes as they require weight cuts for only one match.  And they have zero impact on the season as their results don’t have anything to go with awarding championships.  
 

Why do we even have them?

 

Could it be because they are so popular?
 

Why are they so popular?

Why do duals get better attendance than tournaments that feature many more teams and many more top athletes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Full Nelson said:

The NCAA basketball tournament doesn't deteremine the best team.   No single eliminatin tournament does that very well.  So what? Do you not consider the NCAA basketball tournament or the NFL playoff season a great success?

80% of the time the winner of a duals competetion will be the winner of a torunament. The dominant team is almost always strong at both facets.

Right now all we have is a 3-day season.   The advantage of adding an exciting duals season (plus playoff?) far outweighs any imperfection in picking the national champ.  The winner of a duals competition certainly has made a great accomplishment, if in a slightly different sense.

Then I guess the regular season for NCAA basketball doesnt mean anyting either.

 

Just now, Pinnum said:

You don’t think duals are a good measure of teams head to head.  
 

Okay, then why do we even have them?  They are expensive as the require a lot of travel for few matches.  They are taxing on athletes as they require weight cuts for only one match.  And they have zero impact on the season as their results don’t have anything to go with awarding championships.  
 

Why do we even have them?

 

Could it be because they are so popular?
 

Why are they so popular?

Why do duals get better attendance than tournaments that feature many more teams and many more top athletes?

If this is your true argument, why have ANY sport that doesnt produce a profit?

I said in my earlier post HAVE BOTH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

You underestimate the excitement/value of the team component in the tournament.

2 team championships. Tournament and Duals. NCAA needs to be open to it. And dont bring up how other sports have 1 team champ. Wrestling is unlike all of those sports.

You can only have one national champion.   They've had dual champions before and nobody cared.

You underestimate how broken the wrestling sport is.  We have 4 months of meaningless competitions where good wrestlers often skip events.  You also underestimate how exciting the NCAA torunament will remain even without a team race.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Full Nelson said:

You can only have one national champion.   They've had dual champions before and nobody cared.

You underestimate how broken the wrestling sport is.  We have 4 months of meaningless competitions where good wrestlers often skip events.  You also underestimate how exciting the NCAA torunament will remain even without a team race.

You underestimate the value of adding the NCAA stamp. Sorry but theres no excitement for a NWCA National Duals. Have it sponsored and run by the NCAA and suddenly it will count and have value. In this world branding is everything.

 

Also tell that to every state that runs a dual team state championship.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

And dont bring up how other sports have 1 team champ. Wrestling is unlike all of those sports.

Ha ha ha. 
 

No, it isn’t.  
 

Hell, even golf moved to a dual national championship.  Yes.  Golf.  

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/how-the-ncaa-championship-has-become-one-of-golfs-best-tournaments

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

You underestimate the value of adding the NCAA stamp. Sorry but theres no excitement for a NWCA National Duals. Have it sponsored and run by the NCAA and suddenly it will count and have value. In this world branding is everything.

If it doesn't determine the naitonal champion then there is no reason to care.    Wrestlers & coaches will save themselves for the tournament that counts.

Edited by Full Nelson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Pinnum said:

Ha ha ha. 
 

No, it isn’t.  
 

Hell, even golf moved to a dual national championship.  Yes.  Golf.  

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/how-the-ncaa-championship-has-become-one-of-golfs-best-tournaments

Do you advocate for Track and field, and Swimming and Gymnastics and Cross Country to change to a dual tournament?

Edited by BigTenFanboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Full Nelson said:

If it doesn't determine the naitonal champion than there is no reason to care.    Wrestlers & coaches will save themselves for the tournament that counts.

If the NCAA says its the NCAA Dual team champion theres reason to care. You underestimate the value of the NCAA stamp.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Pinnum said:

No team championship at the NCAA individual tournament.  
 

The team champion is determined via a dual championship where teams must qualify.  Every conference gets an auto-bid. The remaining slots are determined via at-large selections based on their total season results in duals.  

This makes duals have more significance and makes matches in duals have dual importance (qualifying the individual for the NCAA tournament and the team for the dual NCAA tournament). 
 

 

So simple, yet so true.

Although wouldn't all teams have to wrestle each other in order to have proper standings? Would large conferences like the EIWA and Big Ten need to be split up?

Edited by 1032004

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Then I guess the regular season for NCAA basketball doesnt mean anyting either.

 

There is no cost to teams going all-out in their regular season games.  They don't rest good players.  There isn't an individual ranking race layered on top of the game.   They don;t have to make weight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Full Nelson said:

There is no cost to teams going all-out in their regular season games.  They don't rest good players.  There isn't an individual ranking race layered on top of the game.   They don;t have to make weight

They dont rest good players? You sure about that?

There isnt an indivudal ranking race layered on top of the game? Uhhh how do they pick All Americans then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

So simple, yet so true.

Although wouldn't all teams have to wrestle each other in order to have proper standings? Would large conferences like the EIWA and Big Ten need to be split up?

You could do a single weekend, 8-team duals tournament.   
The best 3 duals teams in country will almost always be in the top 8 rankings.   Good enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Do you advocate for Track and field, and Swimming and Gymnastics and Cross Country to change to a dual tournament?

None of them have a regular season centered around dual meets.  In fact they don’t really have any dual meets.  They have the same team competition structure through the whole season. 
 

Wrestling has dual meets.  Dual meets that mean nothing other than to satisfy the demand for fans and rivalries that is ignored in the post seas. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

So simple, yet so true.

Although wouldn't all teams have to wrestle each other in order to have proper standings? Would large conferences like the EIWA and Big Ten need to be split up?

No.  The original college football solution solves it. 
 

The rule college football used was any conference with 12 or more teams was permitted to hold a conference championship that didn’t count against the game limit permitted the conference was split into equal divisions that each played a round robin and the championship game featured the two teams with the best record from each division. 
 

The big ten is likely the only one it would apply to.  Teams would leave the mega national qualifiers if they could have an auto bid.   The Ivy League would leave the EIWA (they already recognize a dual champion and give all-Ivy league honors).  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those that are moaning and groaning about the regular season not meaning anything.. that goes for ALL SPORTS. All you have to do is the bare minimum to qualify for the national tournament in ANY sport. Football is different because only until fairly recently have they had a National Championship determined by the winner of a mini tournament.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...