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Winter sports denied extra year of eligibility

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Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

 

Both would show up.

Exactly.  
 

Which is completely different than the previous versions of the “national” duals which each have ducked.  
 

Comparing any previous dual championship held event to an NCAA (dual) team championship is like saying that Vegas or the midlands is indicative of the interest there would be at the NCAA individual championship. 
 

 

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1 minute ago, Pinnum said:

Exactly.  
 

Which is completely different than the previous versions of the “national” duals which each have ducked.  
 

Comparing any previous dual championship held event to an NCAA (dual) team championship is like saying that Vegas or the midlands is indicative of the interest there would be at the NCAA individual championship. 
 

 

Uhhh.. thats why I said earlier to have the NCAA sanction BOTH. I never argued against having a dual championship.

 

a Dual team champion is exactly that... the DUAL team champion.

 

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

For those that are moaning and groaning about the regular season not meaning anything.. that goes for ALL SPORTS. All you have to do is the bare minimum to qualify for the national tournament in ANY sport. Football is different because only until fairly recently have they had a National Championship determined by the winner of a mini tournament.

No. It isn’t different.  
 

In other sports when a team like Evansville beats Kentucky in basketball it is a big deal.  In wrestling when Campbell beats Iowa State people ask if Iowa State held out their starters or sent them to the last chance open instead of wrestling Campbell.  

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3 hours ago, Mphillips said:

Lurker, Folks are pretty emotional in this place in time.  I hope you're not looking for a serious answer...

No I don't and that's really the point.  If you followed the we need a national tournament drive, the main proprietor of that topic, when forced to really look at what it would take to happen, literally wanted nothing to do with it.  That's kind of the point.... It's easy to sit at a keyboard and scream.

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2 minutes ago, Pinnum said:

No. It isn’t different.  
 

In other sports when a team like Evansville beats Kentucky in basketball it is a big deal.  In wrestling when Campbell beats Iowa State people ask if Iowa State held out their starters or sent them to the last chance open instead of wrestling Campbell.  

and Kentucky will still qualify to the NCAA tournament and still have just as good shot at winning the National title in-spite of losing that game. The regular season in basketball doesnt matter either. 

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Uhhh.. thats why I said earlier to have the NCAA sanction BOTH. I never argued against having a dual championship.

 

a Dual team champion is exactly that... the DUAL team champion.

 

Again. There will never be two NCAA wrestling championships in one season.  Might as well be asking for a unicorn. 

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Just now, Pinnum said:

Again. There will never be two NCAA wrestling championships in one season.  Might as well be asking for a unicorn. 

Then a National Dual will NEVER replace the team championship. Might as well be asking for a leprechaun.

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Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

and Kentucky will still qualify to the NCAA tournament and still have just as good shot at winning the National title in-spite of losing that game.

No. Kentucky’s chances of qualifying for the tournament are diminished by that loss.  They need to make up for it.  That team result has real implications on their qualification.  
 

Can you tell me another sport that holds head to head -one versus one- team competitions during the season while keeping track of the wins and losses for those events where a team could finish the year winless in those contests and also be crowned National Champions?

It is impossible in every sport other than wrestling. 

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Just now, Pinnum said:

No. Kentucky’s chances of qualifying for the tournament are diminished by that loss.  They need to make up for it.  That team result has real implications on their qualification.  
 

Can you tell me another sport that holds head to head -one versus one- team competitions during the season while keeping track of the wins and losses for those events where a team could finish the year winless in those contests and also be crowned National Champions?

It is impossible in every sport other than wrestling. 

So then you advocate for only wrestlers with winning records to be allowed in the conference qualifier. Lets cut our numbers even more.

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6 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

and Kentucky will still qualify to the NCAA tournament and still have just as good shot at winning the National title in-spite of losing that game. The regular season in basketball doesnt matter either. 

Because the basketball tournament has 68 teams or whatever it is now.  A wrestling one would have like 16 max, with a lot of the slots going to conference champs.

Edited by 1032004

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2 minutes ago, Pinnum said:

No. Kentucky’s chances of qualifying for the tournament are diminished by that loss.  They need to make up for it.  That team result has real implications on their qualification.  
 

Can you tell me another sport that holds head to head -one versus one- team competitions during the season while keeping track of the wins and losses for those events where a team could finish the year winless in those contests and also be crowned National Champions?

It is impossible in every sport other than wrestling. 

Can you tell me another sport that holds head to head -one versus one- team competitions during the season while keeping track of wins and losses for those events?

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@BigTenFanboy Maybe you’re right.  Maybe the people in wrestling are too committed to the individual tournament scoring system deciding who is crowned national champion. 
 

Will you call for elimination of duals then?   We should probably just eliminate duals from the system completely since they are—as you say— a poor way to compare teams and are such a burden on programs budgets and include so few athletes on a roster.  
 

Will you lead the effort to do away with all duals in college wrestling?

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2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

So then you advocate for only wrestlers with winning records to be allowed in the conference qualifier. Lets cut our numbers even more.

You really don’t understand how other sports work do you?

Holy Cross and Cal Poly have recently made the college basketball tournament with losing records...

 

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Just now, Pinnum said:

@BigTenFanboy Maybe you’re right.  Maybe the people in wrestling are too committed to the individual tournament scoring system deciding who is crowned national champion. 
 

Will you call for elimination of duals then?   We should probably just eliminate duals from the system completely since they are—as you say— a poor way to compare teams and are such a burden on programs budgets and include so few athletes on a roster.  
 

Will you lead the effort to do away with all duals in college wrestling?

Absolutely not. I love duals. I think a duals tournament would be amazing TO GO ALONG SIDE with what we have now. I saw it greatly benefit the sport in a number of High School states. I think removing the team championship from the national tournament is the only thing I see wrong with ANYTHING you've said.

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Just now, Pinnum said:

You really don’t understand how other sports work do you?

Holy Cross and Cal Poly have recently made the college basketball tournament with losing records...

 

False, I know how many other sports work. My comment was to give an example of preventing wrestlers with 0 wins from competing for a National title.

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2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Can you tell me another sport that holds head to head -one versus one- team competitions during the season while keeping track of wins and losses for those events?

You mean like Tennis which has a dual championship and a desperate individual championship?

But I was talking about all sports.  When I said one versus one I meant one team versus one other team. Not individuals one on one. 

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Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

False, I know how many other sports work. My comment was to give an example of preventing wrestlers with 0 wins from competing for a National title.

A wrestler with zero wins is unable to compete for the national title right now.  
 

You must win your conference.  
 

A team can be winless and crowned the best team in the country. 

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1 minute ago, Pinnum said:

You mean like Tennis which has a dual championship and a desperate individual championship?

But I was talking about all sports.  When I said one versus one I meant one team versus one other team. Not individuals one on one. 

So whats more important overall? The individual wrestlers record or the team dual record? Is wrestling an individual sport? or a team sport?

I say its both.

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1 minute ago, Pinnum said:

A wrestler with zero wins is unable to compete for the national title right now.  
 

You must win your conference.  
 

A team can be winless and crowned the best team in the country. 

And when exactly has that happened?

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8 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Who is the better team?

Team A - 4 National Champion calibur wrestlers with 6 gaping holes

Team B - 10 average wrestlers.

In a Dual Team B wins.

In a tournament Team A wins.

Which team do you value more?

Isn’t that likely to be 24-18 in favor of team A?  

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4 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

36-24 Team B. Gapping holes

When have you seen a team that has 4 champs have the other 6 guys get pinned? PSU had a team this year very similar to what you’re talking about and those other 6 hardly if ever got pinned.

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Just now, Mokoma said:

When have you seen a team that has 4 champs have the other 6 guys get pinned? PSU had a team this year very similar to what you’re talking about and those other 6 hardly if ever got pinned.

They’re certainly not getting pinned by “average” wrestlers.

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